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C1 / C11 Refresh RFQ

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The Question: I have an old C1 and C11 that I would like to send to an authorized business that has done C1 and C11 refresh/upgrades for over thirty years and will provide a warranty. So, an RFQ was sent out.
 
This is the first response. Bottom line is $624 with the following content and comments. This option for now, is a send it out and get it back reality.

 

C1 Update RFQ - $624
 

AdminEdit: Info removed at request of member.

 
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For all of that cost; why not do a BillD update to it? Seems like you'll get everything listed above (except the Alps pot, and SS power switch -why?-), plus the BillD mods for about the same net cost.

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Seems like a fair price for a repair shop. Subtract the cost of parts and the many cost of doing business from that quote.
 
He is working for a living and likely not getting rich.
 
IIRC Dennis Miller charged less than $300, seems like $250 for my BillD mod.. After doing a few myself, it became clear that Dennis gave me a gift and a labor of love at that price.
 
Some of the Carver site techs have been very generous to us over the years. The quotes from others seem expensive, Really, we have just been lucky over the years to have guys around who did this work as a hobby and gift to their friends. Just opinion.  
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Just for reference, I paid $325 for BillD's C-11 test mule which included a custom balanced output daughter board.
Bill left it to me to drill the holes in the rear panel, install the balanced output jacks, and terminate the wiring.
 
Here are the placards he mounted to the inside covers that describe the work he did:  
20121024035702467.jpg 
 
20121024035632181.jpg 
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 Bills work is a class act. Yes, it's true, that the price of a shop has to pay the light bill... and some of the heavy bill as well.  Ha! 

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That's alot of dosh to spend on a $125 pre. That said, I'd love to hear it.
 
ray 
 
Bingo! Toss it or put in 50% of a 1250 pre. Or, don't fix it if it isn't broken

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Thanks very spend between$500-700 having the BillD and other mods done to a C-1 and C-11. Never regretted it. After these units were modded and refreshed, they outperformed several of the $1500-20OO preamps I compared them to.

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Thanks very spend between$500-700 having the BillD and other mods done to a C-1 and C-11. Never regretted it. After these units were modded and refreshed, they outperformed several of the $1500-20OO preamps I compared them to.
Couple weeks back I bought a silver face C1BillD from Compwaco for $500.
 
At that price it was a steal and the silver is kind of rare.
 
Sometimes people want the same system they had 30 yrs ago. They are happy to pay more than its actually worth to relive years gone by it seems.
 
Its much like classic cars imho.. That 1969 SS454 LS5 Cowl Induction Chevelle you rode in as a young guy, may have sold for $4K back then.. The cars of today do EVERYTHING better than that old Chevelle. But the Chevelle is worth how much today? 
 
Hard to put a price on these things and value to an individual.
 
You can buy a new car for less money that will outperform the Chevelle in every way possible.
 
Doesn't make the Chevelle (as an example a friend had, and wrapped around a phone pole) worth less money today.
 
I find Carver gear something like muscle cars to people. Sometimes they want to twist the knob on a C1 and see M500 meters bounce like they did when young or watch the LEDs on a M1.0 jump..
 
Something like stomping the go pedal on an LS5 454. 
 
 
 
 
 
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I had a 69 GTO convertible I bought for $750 with 50k miles in 76. The guy couldn't stop getting tickets, no matter what color he kept changing it to. I left one patch in reverse, then four patches in gear changes when trying it out.
 
Since there are many variables that result in a performance judgement, the variables for my studio playback system are specific to that system. A neutral non DSP pre-amp that does not have to tweak or influence any input or output or environment factors. No headphone or phono requirements. I have other systems for those. The classes of circuit families and their characteristics have been kicked around for many years. And now due to popular choices, are mostly being made in China. The C1 & C11 work for now, but shall be replaced with something like a Gen 2 Emotiva XSP-1. My custom system integration and major pro-audio sources say that these types of endeavors represent less than 2% of the consumer market. And now as we and our old components age, that percentage will not be increasing. Kind of like the old boat owner scenario of throwing time & money into the water, if you have the time and/or money. Get the wife's opinion on that, but be prepared to duck :)
 
My fear with all the upgrade/refresh options, discussions and arguments, has been related to catching an "STD" (Stereophoniclly Transmitted Distortion) in my system!
 
I do like simple uncomplicated boats. This is one of mine eusa_dance.gif
 
20171116061013925.jpg 
 
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I'll take it; you can send it to me and I'll pay the shipping. I need something like a C-11 to do some audio experiments with.
 

Thanks for the offer to take a C11 off my hands. I certainly wouldn’t want to put 650 into a 150 preamp that would still be a 150 preamp.

Your offer has however conjured up an alternative use. At my range we have egg shoots. That’s shooting at egg shaped profiles on paper with a one inch shoot-n-see in the middle at 100 yards. Ties are broken with a shoot-off of five tootsie rolls standing upright. This new idea would involve a schematic with a grab bag of locations and points based on the size of the components, for a circuit reflow shoot. Those little carbon resistor buggers would fetch the most points! You get the idea. Thanks for getting me all excited! I’m just trying to figure out if we do the faceplate first or last. I love shooting bugs off targets at 100 yards! yikes.gif 
 
 

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Don't blame me for your desire to put holes in your C-11, you told me the same scenario about using it for target practice a week ago. Do what you like, it's your pre-amp. I was just offering to re-use instead of abuse. I'm not sure why you have the need to start a thread asking about rebuilding when you intent was not to rebuild, but to state you are going to use it for target practice to begin with. Personally I think it's a little insulting to the people here who do such meticulous and generous work for those who enjoy Carver equipment, and those who are proud to own them.

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No blame meant. Thanks was intended. Just my frustration after all the research and requests over the last three years for a C1/C11 refresh, I give up. There seems to have been some good baselines for a refresh, but then after reading all the changes and differing opinions/arguments, I gave up. I still have the amps which were rebuilt as a result of the good knowledge and experience from this website, and will continue to "proudly" use them. The preamps are still operational at some unknown subjective level of degraded performance and will continue to be used in the short term. I have the ability and equipment to do any of this work, but choose at this time to leave it to an established business with experts who may still be doing this work, for which I haven't found many, other than the one quoted, for the preamps.

 
This thread can be used as a reference for anyone else looking to have a C1 or C11 rebuilt/refreshed in the future. 
 
The Emotiva XSP-1 seems to be a unique option, other than the  C1 and C11 to me, to extend the use of the good two channel systems shown on this site for home theater use. 
 

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The straight BillD mod is a refresh with some modification.  It is well documented,  extensively tested, praised by many, can be done by any handy person with little to no electronic knowledge or by your favorite technician for what I believe is a moderate price.
 
Of course there are many other mods designed by others to suite your fancy.  Your choice.  
 
So I don't understand your frustration.   
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The straight BillD mod is a refresh with some modification. It is well documented, extensively tested, praised by many, can be done by any handy person with little to no electronic knowledge or by your favorite technician for what I believe is a moderate price.
Of course there are many other mods designed by others to suite your fancy. Your choice.
So I don't understand your frustration.

 

I don't either. It's like thinking that if you had a beat up, 69 Camaro that you were lucky enough to buy for 1500 bucks and you thought hell, there is no way I'm going to spend five or $10,000 restoring it, because then it is still just a $1,500 car. That's certainly not the case. And it is not the case with this preamp either. You generally never get the money back out of something that you spend upgrading, modifying, or restoring it. But the value increase in a building modded C1 versus a stock one is a pretty substantial jump.

 

I sold my first BillD C-1that was completely redone by B-Man for $700 and i wish it had never done that.

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Thanks very spend between$500-700 having the BillD and other mods done to a C-1 and C-11. Never regretted it. After these units were modded and refreshed, they outperformed several of the $1500-20OO preamps I compared them to.
Couple weeks back I bought a silver face C1BillD from Compwaco for $500.
 
At that price it was a steal and the silver is kind of rare.
 
Sometimes people want the same system they had 30 yrs ago. They are happy to pay more than its actually worth to relive years gone by it seems.
 
Its much like classic cars imho.. That 1969 SS454 LS5 Cowl Induction Chevelle you rode in as a young guy, may have sold for $4K back then.. The cars of today do EVERYTHING better than that old Chevelle. But the Chevelle is worth how much today? 
 
Hard to put a price on these things and value to an individual.
 
You can buy a new car for less money that will outperform the Chevelle in every way possible.
 
Doesn't make the Chevelle (as an example a friend had, and wrapped around a phone pole) worth less money today.
 
I find Carver gear something like muscle cars to people. Sometimes they want to twist the knob on a C1 and see M500 meters bounce like they did when young or watch the LEDs on a M1.0 jump..
 
Something like stomping the go pedal on an LS5 454. 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
Have you seen the prices of Bob's gear lately???? Sheesh there's a $2200 C-19 on ebay right now. I'm glad I experienced mine at $350. Sadly, other than Stoddard and Moffat at Schiit there is no one producing quality pieces in triple digit price range that I'd buy.
 
ray 

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Yup, I got my fathers 76 chevy 4wd 400 auto Scottsdale pickup with 53k miles on it in back of the house, rotting away after many years of good occasional use. It now needs work which I can do, but I would never use it that much to justify the effort, if done "Might" get me 12-16k. I've had the "I'll take it off your hands" or I'll do it for 8k offers, and had to restrain myself from getting the backhoe out for the offeror. I tell them that I'm running out of room in the back yard.
 
It's a difficult, painful, and frustrating decision to issue that "DNR" order, but it's taken a while for me to realize it's time  emcrook.gif
 
Anyone with old girlfriend/spouse versus new girlfriend/spouse analogies? eusa_dance.gif
 
The Gen 2 XSP-1 is $1200 
 
 
 

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Thanks very spend between$500-700 having the BillD and other mods done to a C-1 and C-11. Never regretted it. After these units were modded and refreshed, they outperformed several of the $1500-20OO preamps I compared them to.
 
So it sounds better than your AR? 
 
ray 

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Thanks very spend between$500-700 having the BillD and other mods done to a C-1 and C-11. Never regretted it. After these units were modded and refreshed, they outperformed several of the $1500-20OO preamps I compared them to.
So it sounds better than your AR?
ray

 

Not with my current speakers. I do like the Sonic hologram with other speakers that I have owned, but since that is not an option with SDA's...

 

And the Audio Research, is the first preamp that I have owned that I can honestly say I prefer over my BillD C-1 or C-11. And I had to spend five times the amount of money that I sold that c14 in order to find what I considered a legitimate step up.

 

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