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Dr K

Carver Reference System

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Posted (edited)
35 minutes ago, mbskeam said:

And this is why we can have nice things and paid off.....LOL

 

+1

 

30 minutes ago, Dr K said:

My system never cheats on me, doesn't nag me, doesn't all of a sudden get  headaches in bed, and will never ask for child support or alimony!

 

I much prefer a long line of girlfriends.

Edited by Sk1Bum
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Sounds like you have put all that behind you. But, I think that you should give your system a name. This way, if someone asks what you do with all your money, you can immediately say that you toil at work every day and spend all your free time and money on ___________.   

Papajoe          B|

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On 7/6/2018 at 7:00 PM, Papajoe said:

Sounds like you have put all that behind you. But, I think that you should give your system a name. This way, if someone asks what you do with all your money, you can immediately say that you toil at work every day and spend all your free time and money on ___________.   

Papajoe          B|

 

Hmm...How about Stormy Daniels?

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8 minutes ago, Dr K said:

 

Hmm...How about Stormy Daniels?

I like that.  Just about as expensive (or more); but without political blow back or notoriety.  And at this stage, much more attractive.  Money spent give her a deep beauty and not a cheap make over.

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On 7/3/2018 at 12:24 PM, WJStephens said:

Wow! The only thing is that needs to be in a more expansive room with higher ceilings to let that baby rip IMO! The room is  without doubt a vital part of the system.

 

Can you give us the system rundown?

if I am not mistaken, I believe they were designed for optimal performance with 8-foot ceilings.

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Posted (edited)
33 minutes ago, trav0810 said:

if I am not mistaken, I believe they were designed for optimal performance with 8-foot ceilings.

 

That's very interesting to me considering the size of the speakers. I don't doubt it in the least, although I have personal experience of moving a system out of a smallish room and into a large living room with cathedral ceilings and the difference was astounding. Hence my first-hand conviction as well as writings from the like of Roy Allison that the room is an integral part of the system. I don't think that's controversial view at all and certainly if the system is engineered to certain specifications that should be heeded. 

 

I've never even heard Carver speakers but I see some nice looking ones on ebay: https://www.ebay.com/itm/CARVER-AL-III-SPEAKER-SYSTEM-very-nice/332696803531?hash=item4d764658cb:g:A3oAAOSwxUVae79K. I would be tempted if I had disposable income and they weren't local pick-up only (El Dorado Hills, California).

 

Any thoughts on how they compare to say peers in the B&W (that what I know best) range etc.? Should the local Carver fanatics be jumping on this? 

 

 

Edited by WJStephens

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Posted (edited)
7 hours ago, WJStephens said:

 

That's very interesting to me considering the size of the speakers. I don't doubt it in the least, although I have personal experience of moving a system out of a smallish room and into a large living room with cathedral ceilings and the difference was astounding. Hence my first-hand conviction as well as writings from the like of Roy Allison that the room is an integral part of the system. I don't think that's controversial view at all and certainly if the system is engineered to certain specifications that should be heeded. 

 

I've never even heard Carver speakers but I see some nice looking ones on ebay: https://www.ebay.com/itm/CARVER-AL-III-SPEAKER-SYSTEM-very-nice/332696803531?hash=item4d764658cb:g:A3oAAOSwxUVae79K. I would be tempted if I had disposable income and they weren't local pick-up only (El Dorado Hills, California).

 

Any thoughts on how they compare to say peers in the B&W (that what I know best) range etc.? Should the local Carver fanatics be jumping on this? 

 

 

The room certainly plays a huge part, that's no doubt. These Speaker's, with a typical 8 foot ceiling truly do give you a wall of sound. The Sound Stage will be floor-to-ceiling, wall-to-wall.  I was able to play with them at Carver Fest the year before last, with the really high ceilings there. I've also heard them in a normal sized home Listening Room, and in the small hotel rooms at axpona. I personally think they sound best in an average sized living room. I was really surprised at how good they sounded in the little bitty hotel rooms.

 

I have never owned the AL III's or spent much time listening to them, so hopefully someone else can chime in on that part.

Edited by trav0810

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1 hour ago, WJStephens said:

 

That's very interesting to me considering the size of the speakers. I don't doubt it in the least, although I have personal experience of moving a system out of a smallish room and into a large living room with cathedral ceilings and the difference was astounding. Hence my first-hand conviction as well as writings from the like of Roy Allison that the room is an integral part of the system. I don't think that's controversial view at all and certainly if the system is engineered to certain specifications that should be heeded. 

 

I've never even heard Carver speakers but I see some nice looking ones on ebay: https://www.ebay.com/itm/CARVER-AL-III-SPEAKER-SYSTEM-very-nice/332696803531?hash=item4d764658cb:g:A3oAAOSwxUVae79K. I would be tempted if I had disposable income and they weren't local pick-up only (El Dorado Hills, California).

 

Any thoughts on how they compare to say peers in the B&W (that what I know best) range etc.? Should the local Carver fanatics be jumping on this? 

 

 

I have heard many reference B&W speakers, including the Nautilus  and current reference,  over the years since the late 80's.  The problem with B&W speakers is their proprietary Kevlar midrange driver IMO.  They have a veiled house sound that does not suit my taste.  And their diamond tweeter is not a true 100% diamond tweeter and doesn't do anything special compared to the ribbon or planar magnetic tweeter.   I know a B&W dealer who told me the crossover parts quality and internal workmanship of the reference line is not up to the standards for the price they're asking.

 

Ribbon or planar magnetic drivers in tweeter and midrange application are hard to fault.  They're so much more transparent and quick than any dynamic driver out there.

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Back in the old days when Carver was still open in Lynnwood there was a DIY bass mailing list and they where doing a group buy of 60" Ribbons and crossovers, some also used the stock woofer while others bought another brand. Doug Purls Kryptonite speaker plans. Anyway when Doug met with a Carver Engineer he was told that they had discovered the Amazings where better if they where a foot taller for room response but that they where not made that way because of the wife factor and they already cost too much to make for what they where selling for. My AL-IIl's are now 7'2" with the 60 inch ribbon. I am now adding some tweeters (the same ones in the new Line source) 4 in the front and 2 in the back for the higher octaves to help the ribbons with dispersion. I wonder if the old Carver study's of the taller speaker where an influence in the new models. 

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19 minutes ago, Dr K said:

I have heard many reference B&W speakers, including the Nautilus  and current reference,  over the years since the late 80's.  The problem with B&W speakers is their proprietary Kevlar midrange driver IMO.  They have a veiled house sound that does not suit my taste.  And their diamond tweeter is not a true 100% diamond tweeter and doesn't do anything special compared to the ribbon or planar magnetic tweeter.   I know a B&W dealer who told me the crossover parts quality and internal workmanship of the reference line is not up to the standards for the price they're asking.

 

Ribbon or planar magnetic drivers in tweeter and midrange application are hard to fault.  They're so much more transparent and quick than any dynamic driver out there.

 

There is defintely personal preference and subjectivity at play here, at least on my part.  From where I sit I don't preceive any veil coming from the Kevlar mid-ranges but I don't claim to be a golder ear - my ears are too old to be golden in fact. I do hear vocals pop out with great detail and edge more so than for example, than with the Martin Logans I've heard.  The control room for Abbey Road's flagship Studio One employs Bowers & Wilkins 800D (diamond) with those kevlar drivers and they are preferred by quite a few tip-tier studios and sound professionals in the recording realm.

 

Now I haven't heard what you've heard - I might change my mind if exposed to the rigtht A/B blind test  - and I'm quite dubious about those diamond tweeters particularly regarding their expense or the need for a frequency response thosands of Hz above the range of human hearing. But what the hell do I know? Maybe that head room is important for some reason. Ribbons are far far less expensive than those diamond drivers for damn sure and I bet it's not worth the difference.

 

Having said all that. I fully admit that I am highly subjective and far less knowledgable than you so pleases don't take this as a challenging what you've stated. I do know I love the B&W sound and that puts me in good company and my Carver amp seems to drive them beautifully. 

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, WJStephens said:

 

There is defintely personal preference and subjectivity at play here, at least on my part.  From where I sit I don't preceive any veil coming from the Kevlar mid-ranges but I don't claim to be a golder ear - my ears are too old to be golden in fact. I do hear vocals pop out with great detail and edge more so than for example, than with the Martin Logans I've heard.  The control room for Abbey Road's flagship Studio One employs Bowers & Wilkins 800D (diamond) with those kevlar drivers and they are preferred by quite a few tip-tier studios and sound professionals in the recording realm.

 

Now I haven't heard what you've heard - I might change my mind if exposed to the rigtht A/B blind test  - and I'm quite dubious about those diamond tweeters particularly regarding their expense or the need for a frequency response thosands of Hz above the range of human hearing. But what the hell do I know? Maybe that head room is important for some reason. Ribbons are far far less expensive than those diamond drivers for damn sure and I bet it's not worth the difference.

 

Having said all that. I fully admit that I am highly subjective and far less knowledgable than you so pleases don't take this as a challenging what you've stated. I do know I love the B&W sound and that puts me in good company and my Carver amp seems to drive them beautifully. 

By no means do I perceive you are challenging me.  I'm no golden ear either, and I don't think I know any more than you about high end equipment than you.  I apologize if I seemed to be down grading the B&Ws.  My preference is closer to planar speakers than dynamic, thus my bias.  I do know acclaimed professional recording studios use the B&Ws.  What professional recording studios require for speakers (neutrality) seem to be very different than home application though (musicality).  B&Ws will always be more dynamic than planars like Martin Logan (full or hybrid).  But the Carver ALS do both, transparency and openness like planars and huge dynamics of cone speakers.  If you ever get a chance to hear a properly set up ALS, it will be a game changer.

 

I know an industry insider who knows the cost of those diamond tweeters.  Surprisingly, they cost next to nil compared to a good ribbon tweeter.  B&W makes great speaker cabinets, but I question their driver technology.  But in the end, if you love the B&W sound, that's all that matters. No reviewer, dealer, or golden ear audiophile can hear for you.

 

Edited by Dr K
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Posted (edited)
43 minutes ago, Dr K said:

By no means do I perceive you are challenging me.  I'm no golden ear either, and I don't think I know any more than you about high end equipment than you.  I apologize if I seemed to be down grading the B&Ws.  My preference is closer to planar speakers than dynamic, thus my bias.  I do know acclaimed professional recording studios use the B&Ws.  What professional recording studios require for speakers (neutrality) seem to be very different than home application though (musicality).  B&Ws will always be more dynamic than planars like Martin Logan (full or hybrid).  But the Carver ALS do both, transparency and openness like planars and huge dynamics of cone speakers.  If you ever get a chance to hear a properly set up ALS, it will be a game changer.

 

I know an industry insider who knows the cost of those diamond tweeters.  Suprisingly, they cost next to nil compared to a good ribbon tweeter.  B&W makes great speaker cabinets, but question their driver technology.  But in the end, if you love the B&W sound, that's all that matters. No reviewer, dealer, or golden ear audiophile can hear for you.

 

 

Well stated. I certainly can't argue with any of that and I didn't take your comments as down grading B&W, we all have our preferences. Good point about neutrality as well. I will even say that a crap recording sounds like crap on my set-up which is almost a perverse point of pride. I've heard other systems do much better with crap. :-) 

 

Sounds like that diamond biz might be a bit of a scam there - industrial diamonds are not expensive as far as I know... you can get a frickin' nail file at the local dept. store covered with diamond dust for a few bucks.

 

I Hope I can hear those Carver ALS speakers someday, you've certainly whetted my curiosity! 

 

BTW, sorry about all the typos in my last post - that's a bit embarrassing. Haste makes waste. 

 

Cheers,

 

Bill

Edited by WJStephens

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16 hours ago, WJStephens said:

 

Well stated. I certainly can't argue with any of that and I didn't take your comments as down grading B&W, we all have our preferences. Good point about neutrality as well. I will even say that a crap recording sounds like crap on my set-up which is almost a perverse point of pride. I've heard other systems do much better with crap. 🙂 

 

Sounds like that diamond biz might be a bit of a scam there - industrial diamonds are not expensive as far as I know... you can get a frickin' nail file at the local dept. store covered with diamond dust for a few bucks.

 

I Hope I can hear those Carver ALS speakers someday, you've certainly whetted my curiosity! 

 

BTW, sorry about all the typos in my last post - that's a bit embarrassing. Haste makes waste. 

 

Cheers,

 

Bill

Yes, there’s many scams in high end, some by very well known “reputable” companies.

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