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Daddyjt

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I have been living with the Kappas for about a month now. Although not Carver gear, they definitely fall under the OCCD banner - I have already acquired another pair with incorrect woofers, just to have back-up SEMIT, EMIT, Polydome and Polygraph drivers.

 

Having them in their correct position has smoothed out the bass response significantly (Just have to figure out where the RF7s are going). The real gold mine of the Kappas is the midrange - I feel as though I am listening to most of my music collection for the first time. Vocals are simply sublime - my running favorites are: Dishwalla, Allison Krause, James Taylor, Paul McCartney, and Sarah Brightman. The Kappas somehow manage to cover the entire mid frequency with no gaps or anomalies in volume or response. The voicing of the various drivers is seamless. Vocals and instruments pop up from all around the room. The detail is incredible - The finger or pick on the individual guitar strings - The intake of breath before a verse is sung - The hand actually striking the tambourine... Just spectacular realism.

 

The price of admission is POWER. Lots and lots of POWER. I am currently running a bi-amped 1.0t mkII pair, and the Kappas soak up every watt. I will get my 9ts recapped someday, and then we'll probably start this whole discovery mode anew:-)

 

8x10_zpscfc7ecfc.jpg

 

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Wow jaw_dropper.gif.......that is INTENSE Mark!!!!  I bet those things are ROCKING party.gif!!!!  I just can't believe how friggin BIG those things are yikes.gif........my wife would literally 5hi7 a brick if I tried to put those things next to our TV LOL!!!!!!!!

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Holy crap... That's a lot of power you're pushing through those!! jaw_dropper.gif
They look great, too! So, when's the party at Mark's house? emwink.gif  

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Are you bi-amping per speaker (ie. each amp drives the tweeters and woofers of a single speaker)?  That would be the way I would go (assuming Gene doesnt see a problem with it).
 
 
A buddy owns some Kappa 8's and I really want to hear on my modded M1.0t someday.  The 9's are on my list to own someday maybe....
 
Hey Mark as a thought.... you looked at spending any time with REW + a USB MIC to help you see how your room is actually responding as you move the speakers in it?
 
I just dropped the money on a MiniDSP + UMIK-1 mic so I can get a nice graph of what my room sounds like from my main LP and then screw with positioning to get the best result (before running any auto calibration).
 
The USB mic I bought is all of like 70 bucks plus shipping... 
 
Might be a worthwhile investment.

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Are you bi-amping per speaker (ie. each amp drives the tweeters and woofers of a single speaker)?  That would be the way I would go (assuming Gene doesnt see a problem with it).
 

 

Based off the photo it looks like both amps are driving those speakers. Notice one channel on both amps is putting out more than the other.
 
(Horizontal Bi-Amp) Using this term loosely due to this not being an "Active" set up. Going active is not an option due to these being a 5 way passive crossover setup.
 
To literally screw with the crossover network on these... Your either smarter than Arnie is, or you have balls the size of grapefruits. face20.gif
 
 
 
A59A4751_zpsec7c2a82.jpg

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Are you bi-amping per speaker (ie. each amp drives the tweeters and woofers of a single speaker)?  That would be the way I would go (assuming Gene doesnt see a problem with it).
 

 

Based off the photo it looks like both amps are driving those speakers. Notice one channel on both amps is putting out more than the other.
 
(Horizontal Bi-Amp) Using this term loosely due to this not being an "Active" set up. Going active is not an option due to these being a 5 way passive crossover setup.
 
To literally screw with the crossover network on these... Your either smarter than Arnie is, or you have balls the size of grapefruits. face20.gif
 
 
 
A59A4751_zpsec7c2a82.jpg
 
So your saying one amp is driving both sets of tweeters and the other the woofers?  Why would one do that over using one amp per speaker (amp A drives Speaker A Tweeters & Speaker A woofers - amp B drives Speaker B Tweeters & Speaker B woofers)
 
And yes bi-amping is a HORRIBLE term to use if your not truly active....

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So your saying one amp is driving both sets of tweeters and the other the woofers?  Why would one do that over using one amp per speaker (amp A drives Speaker A Tweeters & Speaker A woofers - amp B drives Speaker B Tweeters & Speaker B woofers)
 

 

 
Yes.
 
Personal preference. Not that going vertical is a bad idea.
 
Here's how I look at going vertical. What if one amp is not putting out the same voltage as the other amp at a certain volume setting? Even though they are benchmarked at a certain level, not sure what that wattage is (maybe Rich, Greg or Mark can weigh in on that concern). That would drive me batshit wondering if one speaker is louder than the other.
 
If Mark has the Bass knob in check running one amp on the drivers is fine, what's important on those speakers is the midrange on up. If I had those 2 amps running in my setup, 1 MKII running on top would be the way to go for me. The reproduction in that range is important, wouldn't want any sag due to the drivers robbing my mids and tweets of that flavorful bliss sound.

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Here's how I look at going vertical. What if one amp is not putting out the same voltage as the other amp at a certain volume setting? Even though they are benchmarked at a certain level, not sure what that wattage is (maybe Rich, Greg or Mark can weigh in on that concern). That would drive me bat5hi7 wondering if one speaker is louder than the other.
 
If Mark has the Bass knob in check running one amp on the drivers is fine, what's important on those speakers is the midrange on up. If I had those 2 amps running in my setup, 1 MKII running on top would be the way to go for me. The reproduction in that range is important, wouldn't want any sag due to the drivers robbing my mids and tweets of that flavorful bliss sound.
That makes sense, my counter is that I would think you would end up driving one amp harder than the other as the woofers require more power to provide those low notes, whereas the tweeters and mids dont need as much.
 
Either way has its potential compromises, I was just curious as to the reasoning for one over the other.
 
I am not nearly as smart as most of you guys when it comes to electrical stuff.  I just stick to knowing computers and graphics lol....

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Here's how I look at going vertical. What if one amp is not putting out the same voltage as the other amp at a certain volume setting? Even though they are benchmarked at a certain level, not sure what that wattage is (maybe Rich, Greg or Mark can weigh in on that concern). That would drive me bat5hi7 wondering if one speaker is louder than the other.
 
 
How would you know each channel of the same amp was perfectly balanced? Or that each driver in each speaker had exactly the same sensitivity? Or as a system the overall response was perfectly balanced? Might as well test it all yourself...
 
Can you even tell a 1dB difference at those volume levels? That's a significant amount of amp power, but an almost trivial difference in speaker response.
 
You could do some testing- hopefully double blind, but that's not always easy. Turn down one channel a notch or two, and see if you can tell when it was turned down, and which channel (left highs, right lows, etc.). Then try the same with both sides highs or lows at the same time. Then with one entire side versus the other. 
 
Who knows? You might even like it with a little imbalance. emsmile.gif
 
 

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Personal preference. Not that going vertical is a bad idea.
 
Here's how I look at going vertical. What if one amp is not putting out the same voltage as the other amp at a certain volume setting? Even though they are benchmarked at a certain level, not sure what that wattage is (maybe Rich, Greg or Mark can weigh in on that concern). That would drive me bat5hi7 wondering if one speaker is louder than the other.
 
Ohhhhhh me too.  Me too.  Absolutely nuts.

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How would you know each channel of the same amp was perfectly balanced? Or that each driver in each speaker had exactly the same sensitivity? Or as a system the overall response was perfectly balanced? Might as well test it all yourself...
 
Can you even tell a 1dB difference at those volume levels? That's a significant amount of amp power, but an almost trivial difference in speaker response.
 
You could do some testing- hopefully double blind, but that's not always easy. Turn down one channel a notch or two, and see if you can tell when it was turned down, and which channel (left highs, right lows, etc.). Then try the same with both sides highs or lows at the same time. Then with one entire side versus the other. 
 
Who knows? You might even like it with a little imbalance. emsmile.gif
 
 
 
 
 
Like I said, that would drive me batshit.
 
Used an spl meter when I first started calibrating the amps to the system and noticed just that (the Gain on the 45's were not exact) one amp was louder than the other on the CRM3's, each speaker has it's own TFM-45. 15 minutes later after a quick recal inside the amp (confirmed by VOM one amp was putting out 20v @ 50w when the other amp was putting out around 18v at the same time) Same was true on the Silver 7t's I could hear a difference with the amps that were on the top side only when the music was around -72 to -77db range on the spl meter, anything higher and could not tell a difference. FYI the -72 to -77db range is what I normally watch TV at. I've gone through my Silver 7t's and my 45's  on the main channel to make sure the 45's are exact on the output as well as the output on the Silver 7t's. I'm sure Mark did the same thing on his amps too.

 

 
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Sorry to post and run this morning...

 

To answer the question, they are vertically bi-amped(I know, terrible word choice, since I'm not actively crossing over, but I don't know the correct normanclature for removing the jumpers and using two amp channels to drive one speaker). I balanced the output in the Marantz - IIRC, I had to bump the right channel up one notch. I couldn't hear a difference, but the spl meter said there was a .3 DB variance.

 

I figure the bass can pull a little extra headroom from the "high" channel when things get demanding. My ultimate plan is to put a Silver 9t on each bass, and give each high section it's own mkII - not bridged, just running one channel of each amp per speaker, for max headroom.

I also plan to try Gene's 4.0t on both the highs and lows, to get a feel for that setup.

 

Mark

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Are you bi-amping per speaker (ie. each amp drives the tweeters and woofers of a single speaker)? That would be the way I would go (assuming Gene doesnt see a problem with it).
A buddy owns some Kappa 8's and I really want to hear on my modded M1.0t someday. The 9's are on my list to own someday maybe....
Hey Mark as a thought.... you looked at spending any time with REW + a USB MIC to help you see how your room is actually responding as you move the speakers in it?
I just dropped the money on a MiniDSP + UMIK-1 mic so I can get a nice graph of what my room sounds like from my main LP and then screw with positioning to get the best result (before running any auto calibration).
The USB mic I bought is all of like 70 bucks plus shipping...
Might be a worthwhile investment.

 

My velodyne DD12 came with a really nice mic, but it's an XLR end. Any way to make that work, Bean?

 

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Sorry to post and run this morning...

 

To answer the question, they are vertically bi-amped(I know, terrible word choice, since I'm not actively crossing over, but I don't know the correct normanclature for removing the jumpers and using two amp channels to drive one speaker). I balanced the output in the Marantz - IIRC, I had to bump the right channel up one notch. I couldn't hear a difference, but the spl meter said there was a .3 DB variance.

 

I figure the bass can pull a little extra headroom from the "high" channel when things get demanding. My ultimate plan is to put a Silver 9t on each bass, and give each high section it's own mkII - not bridged, just running one channel of each amp per speaker, for max headroom.

I also plan to try Gene's 4.0t on both the highs and lows, to get a feel for that setup.

 

Mark

Mark, you'll just need one amp on the high side whether it's an MKII or the M-4.0t, using 2 amps on the top is not necessary unless you pick up some 7t's. I powered my top end with a bone stock M-1.0t and it sang it's heart out, there was a hint of distortion at some really ungodly levels. You'll find 1 MKII will do perfect on the top with your Silver 9t's on the bottom, all available headroom probably wont even get used.  emwink.gif

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Sorry to post and run this morning...

To answer the question, they are vertically bi-amped(I know, terrible word choice, since I'm not actively crossing over, but I don't know the correct normanclature for removing the jumpers and using two amp channels to drive one speaker).
 
Biamping? emteeth.gif Biamping (or triamping...) doesn't require an active crossover. It still brings benefits with passive crossovers.

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My velodyne DD12 came with a really nice mic, but it's an XLR end. Any way to make that work, Bean?

 
Dont know Mark.. will do some digging and see what I can come up with but its gonna be a little bit.  My laptops been crapping out on me so I have to do a full reinstall of Windows 7 (pre SP1) and then all the updates, driver installs, etc.....
 
HomeTheaterShack may have your answer though.  They are the REW experts... my guess is there has to be some sort of XLR to USB external card you could use for calibration, but off the top of my head not familiar with anything... 

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