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Will Dew

Moving damage - Repair

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So we moved across the continent and all of our gear made it in one piece...except one of the Klipsch KSB 3.1's that is running on our daughter's set up (refurbished CT-24 & M500T). As you can see in the attached photos it's not pretty. I called my audio guy back East and he gave me some advice/instruction on repairing it myself. I may still try it but I'm also wondering if anyone has suggestions for someone in the outer Seattle area who does repairs. Maybe to tackle this but also good to know just in case any other gear needs attention in the future.

 

 

 

Thanks!

 

WD

KSB 3-1 A.jpg

A little closer...

KSB 3-1 B.png

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BTW, any other additional advice on possibly repairing it appreciated.  Haven't been in a real hurry on these since I had a pair of BA VR-M50's that sound very good in this set up. Our daughter likes the K's so I'm hoping I can get it back on line before she's back from school. 

 

 

 

WD

Edited by Will Dew
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Thats a pretty crappy job by Klipsch ..... supporting the entire xover by just the two connections to the posts..... 

The fix looks pretty easy. make a few new right angle tabs, you could use a heavy gauge solid copper conductor, maybe 12awg. Flatten it a bit if you want or just use it as is. Make a loop for the post, then bend at a right angle. Scrape the mask off the board and solder the wire to the newly exposed copper. For the + side, just remove the broken tab and solder the new tab or wire where the old one was. 

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6 hours ago, Zenith4me said:

Give Hawthorne Stereo a call. I've bought gear from them but have never had anything repaired by them.

 

http://www.hawthornestereo.com/service/

 

Nice, thank you for the lead!!

 

 

WD

5 hours ago, jeffs said:

Thats a pretty crappy job by Klipsch ..... supporting the entire xover by just the two connections to the posts..... 

The fix looks pretty easy. make a few new right angle tabs, you could use a heavy gauge solid copper conductor, maybe 12awg. Flatten it a bit if you want or just use it as is. Make a loop for the post, then bend at a right angle. Scrape the mask off the board and solder the wire to the newly exposed copper. For the + side, just remove the broken tab and solder the new tab or wire where the old one was. 

 

Agreed. But, my daughter digs them so I'll give it a go. Thank you for your advice.

 

 

 

 

WD

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I usually don't attempt this sort of repair anymore, but if I did, a good solder flux would be in the lineup.

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I would keep the sand cast resistors. They dissipate heat better than film resistors. They are also wirewound resistors which I read-  http://www.aikenamps.com/index.php/resistor-types-does-it-matter   -are the most linear for audio use. I doubt that you'd hear any improvement with others. The repair looks easy. I would not resolder the board to the original tabs....rather use a braided copper conductor...much like what is used in solder wick or the wires going to the voice coil of many speakers. It's very flexible and won't come loose with vibration in the future. Find a way to mount the board without using the tabs..(possibly small brackets expoxied to the board and mounting spot....I'm sure there are numerous ways to do it) and then solder the braid to the existing tabs and the board without directly soldering the tabs back to the board. That way they are free to move slightly without breaking again. I've had to do this several times on different occasions and it worked out quite well every time I have done it. I'm sure you can handle it yourself!

Edited by fxbill
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On 1/26/2020 at 12:25 PM, fxbill said:

They are also wirewound resistors which I read-  http://www.aikenamps.com/index.php/resistor-types-does-it-matter   -are the most linear for audio use. 

 

For noise, wirewound may have a very slight advantage over metal film, but otherwise not a great choice for audio

 

https://www.eetimes.com/selecting-resistors-for-preamp-amplifier-and-other-high-end-audio-applications/#

 

the major objection to wirewound resistors is their inductance, which results in chopping the signal peaks1 , and the significant dependence of resistor impedance on signal frequency. In addition, special attention must be paid to the following effects associated with reactance of wirewound resistors:

  • The audio amplifier may oscillate spontaneously at 5 MHz to over 50 MHz affecting audio quality [3, p.22-6].
  • Equivalent series inductance (ESL) can cause large phase shifts affecting audio tone [3, p.22-6].
  • The wire coil may act as a pick-up of EMI that may surpass the level of usual current noise [2, p.167].
Edited by RichP714
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3 hours ago, fxbill said:

I would keep the sand cast resistors. They dissipate heat better than film resistors. 

 

The cement or sandcast resistors are either wirewound or cast coil elements embedded in ceramic, ceramic is a very high heat tolerant insulator, which allows the resistor to survive high temperatures from large current flow in a passive crossover.  You probqably don't want to have lots of thermal dissipation inside a speaker cabinet.

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If you want you can disconnect the broken tabs from the binding posts and then box the whole thing up with the broken tab pieces and send it to me. I'll fix it and send it back to you - no charge. If it will fit in a small Priority Mail box it will cost you less than $8 to send it to me. I'll cover the return cost.

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On 1/26/2020 at 4:31 PM, RichP714 said:

the major objection to wirewound resistors is their inductance, which results in chopping the signal peaks1 , and the significant dependence of resistor impedance on signal frequency. In addition, special attention must be paid to the following effects associated with reactance of wirewound resistors:

  • The audio amplifier may oscillate spontaneously at 5 MHz to over 50 MHz affecting audio quality [3, p.22-6].
  • Equivalent series inductance (ESL) can cause large phase shifts affecting audio tone [3, p.22-6].
  • The wire coil may act as a pick-up of EMI that may surpass the level of usual current noise [2, p.167].

I doubt that this is an issue in a crossover.... especially with lower resistance resistors. The inductance issue is generally only evident in higher values where more turns are on the resistor.

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1 hour ago, fxbill said:

I doubt that this is an issue in a crossover.... especially with lower resistance resistors. The inductance issue is generally only evident in higher values where more turns are on the resistor.

 

Application will matter quite a bit, yes.

 

The section of my post that you quoted is an excerpt from the EEtimes article  l linked above..

 

In a passive crossover, tolerating higher current is more important than ESL, so the ceramic coated wirewound would be preferred.  ON the line level side, it would be best to avoid wirewound, as the very slight difference in noise isn't much of an advantage, and the ESL does become an issue (particularly in tube amplifiers, you don't want plate resistor ESL to induce oscillation) for the reasons mentioned in the EEtimes article.

 

media-1110868-selecting-resistors-for-hi

Edited by RichP714

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1 hour ago, fxbill said:

The inductance issue is generally only evident in higher values where more turns are on the resistor.

 

More turns = higher inductance, yes.  However, take a look at the output LC network in an M-500 (for example).  The inductor in that tank circuit has only about 10 turns in it, yet the function it performs is cruicial to the amp's stability.

 

Most if the 'common knowledge' about choosing parts is borne from specific circumstances, and is NOT applicable to all uses. 

Edited by RichP714

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4 hours ago, B-Man said:

If you want you can disconnect the broken tabs from the binding posts and then box the whole thing up with the broken tab pieces and send it to me. I'll fix it and send it back to you - no charge. If it will fit in a small Priority Mail box it will cost you less than $8 to send it to me. I'll cover the return cost.

 

 

Thank you very much for the offer!! 

 

WD

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