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A coworker remarked that Corona disease was found in his town. I told him we've had Corona disease in my town for a long time, but we always called it alcoholism. OHHHWWW!

 

 

 

My friends went to China and all I got was this infected teeshirt...

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People are going overboard with this.

Right now many of the stores have run out of toilet paper. 

Do they think TP will prevent the virus. 

Are they hanging it by the windows like its garlic (i'm thinking vampires)  

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49 minutes ago, Will Meyer said:

People are going overboard with this.

Right now many of the stores have run out of toilet paper. 

Do they think TP will prevent the virus. 

Are they hanging it by the windows like its garlic (i'm thinking vampires)  

 

 

I think that has more to do with the 'in place' quarantines that are happening; if you

are stuck at home for 14 days or more, you'll probably need some stuff

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Honestly, it's good to see people making a little light of this. IMO the Media is being out right dangerous in their attempts to instigate panic. I don't think they're being lazy, they're being harmful.

 

Studies have shown that stress weakens the immune system. If they cared about this situation in any slim capacity, they would be doing their best to calm people and inform them of the facts. All out fear shuts down your immune response. I wonder how many people are literally being scared to death when people in hazmat suits are surrounding them and telling them they have the corona virus disease. Even worse, when all they see on TV is body bags and and other dramatic pictures that aren't even corona virus event related (yes, the media does this). The propaganda is absolutely malevolent in its approach to the public.

 

 

The virus is dangerous. But it isn't any more deadly than a bad flu. Fatality is trending to 1% and dropping as it spreads throughout the world. China's dismal 3.9% appears to be the worst fatality record in the world, and their numbers are dominating the statistics for now.

 

The good news is that the spread is tapering off. Even though numbers are climbing higher, they're very, very gradual. This is a very good sign. Nevertheless, it will continue to spread, and after a year, it may be commonplace. Governments can only do so much, and I personally feel it is the epitome of arrogance that we have an expectation to control it when influenza cycles worldwide all year around.

 

Take care of yourself. Stay hydrated. And please, don't worry. Be happy and confident. Your body can and will defeat this infection, and you won't need 8.3 billion in crony capitalism to help you.

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I agree with @Nahash5150- the media are doing everything possible to blow this up into a full on disaster, instead of doing their moral duty to properly report and guide people.  Oop, I forgot - no morals.  :-k

 

Yes, it is dangerous, but you're right about the flu.  Estimates of fatalities from the flu, last year, in Canada, alone are about 4500.  Guess what the worldwide count is for C-19?  Yup, about 4500.

 

I visit a major hospital daily to visit my wife.  There are some notices up, but no hazmat suits, no masks, no isolation or avoidance of one another - just sensible, normal precautions.

 

I did see one lady at Costco the other day buying 84 rolls of toilet paper.  Really?!?!  I hope she has a big family or she may have enough for life!

 

Now excuse me while I go apply some of @Dnspy007's protective spray to my throat.  

 

Say, d'you suppose loud music might not kill the virus...?

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I might sound like a broken record, but I just care too much about this situation we're all in. There's just so much misinformation and practically useless information being spread even by the 'experts'. The perception that viruses are this 'enemy of humanity' and it's up to doctors and governments to control it all is horseshit. Isolation is actually very dangerous to the world at large. I think in the past we've actually seen the very deadly result of isolation then sudden exposure to new diseases...

 

Your immune system is already equipped and ready to find, identify and destroy the COVID-19. Your immune system is far more intelligent, far more concerned for you, and far more powerful than anything a doctor or government can do.

 

Once the virus enters your body and starts invading tissue, your cells set off alarms. Multiple immune cell types infiltrate the tissue from the blood stream in response and set up 'camps' where they corral more immune cells into the tissue with them (we experience this as inflammation). Helpers find cells infected with the virus and wear the protein receptors (that infected cells wear) when they are being damaged by the virus to reproduce its RNA. The receptors are copied by other immune cells, then more alarms are signaled throughout the body to produce immune cells specifically designed to create receptors to bind to the foreign proteins. Killer immune cells then wear the receptors, find the infected cells and inject a poison to kill the cell and the viruses within it. Macrophages then eat up the dead cells and viruses, so that the body can flush it all out in the form of puss or mucous. Eventually, immune cells can learn how to bind directly to the virus. Every virus has a different 'pattern', as determined by its RNA, so each new virus has a unique antigen which an antibody needs to match to. By creating antigen specific antibodies, these peptides are manufactured and spread throughout the body. If any virus comes in contact with the structures (the antibodies) that match, the antibodies bind directly to the virus, preventing it from being able to enter any cell walls. When this happens, the virus is completely doomed, and becomes an easy task for macrophages to find, consume and destroy.

 

This is only a very basic explanation of what it does. The immune system actually has many different kinds of ways to search and destroy invaders. It's greatest power is to adapt and try multitudes of ways to destroy foreign invaders, and once it works, it learns and remembers.

 

Therefore, the whole experience of getting sick is the immune system working to learn how to destroy a new kind of invader.

 

The body goes into cleaning mode to keep waste materials flowing out (coughing, sneezing, sweating, etc), it diverts most of its resources to the immune system where million and millions of new cells need to be made every hour (aching, weakness, loss of appetite), it may induce fever which is good for your immune system and very bad for bacteria and virus (your immune system can out reproduce them easily under a fever), and when you recover, you're cleaner, stronger, and immune to the invader. However, the most important lesson is that your immune system has learned more recent mutations and adaptations that viruses are evolving into. Take careful note of this...if you never get sick, your immune system wouldn't have learned enough 'lessons' to keep up with new viruses.

 

It is absolutely essential that our immune systems adapt with viruses and bacteria over time, or they will adapt far enough to cause severe illness or death because your immune system just isn't prepared for it, and can't defeat it in time before your body is overtaken by the infection or the symptoms. I'll let you decide what that means for you...

 

Your immune system cares for you deeply. Care for it in return, and you will survive any infection.

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 Because of the absolute hysteria being created, I know that even my little town in Wyoming will have secondary effects from the fear based response of our country. Watching the DOW do a summersault and then a tall dive, is only one aspect that is a headshaker. Trickle down effects from actions being taken, along with the masses too scared to believe otherwise just might be the lesson that needs to be learned (at great cost) by this country. Crash positions everyone.

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20 minutes ago, 4krow said:

 Because of the absolute hysteria being created, I know that even my little town in Wyoming will have secondary effects from the fear based response of our country. Watching the DOW do a summersault and then a tall dive, is only one aspect that is a headshaker. Trickle down effects from actions being taken, along with the masses too scared to believe otherwise just might be the lesson that needs to be learned (at great cost) by this country. Crash positions everyone.

 

The DJIA is down what, 18-19% including today's rebound? I wonder how many trillions of dollars of wealth just evaporated? 

 

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Posted (edited)

Stock markets telegraph the future even if that behavior seems mysterious to us and without logic. Just look at what the stock market did on its own just prior to 911...no amount of explanation or logic can explain that behavior. 

 

The factory interruptions in China are real not hysteria and will have a dramatic and prolonged effect on all economies, even ours. Supply chains for all kinds of domestic industries have been upset. Stopping  product for even a single day can have an impact, let alone for weeks at a time or longer. Since we have given up our own domestic production of things like pharmaceuticals, PC chips and other critical parts we are, unfortunately at the receiving end of a long sharp stick. The supply chain for some things we take for granted may dry up for a while. Maybe this will alert domestic business leaders to learn the value of alternative sources and local business partners.  We shall see.

Edited by straylight
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On 3/7/2020 at 4:40 PM, Daddyjt said:

This is going to go down in history as one of the biggest nothing-burgers of all time. 
 

incomplete data, half-assed reporting from a lazy media, and a malleable public create the perfect storm. 

 

'Nothing-burger' eh?  Tell the families of the 4,300+ dead around the world, including 31 dead in the USA and 600+ dead in Italy.

 

COVID-19 CORONAVIRUS OUTBREAK

 

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1 hour ago, gold98gtp said:

 

'Nothing-burger' eh?  Tell the families of the 4,300+ dead around the world, including 31 dead in the USA and 600+ dead in Italy.

 

COVID-19 CORONAVIRUS OUTBREAK

 

 

1 hour ago, gold98gtp said:

 

'Nothing-burger' eh?  Tell the families of the 4,300+ dead around the world, including 31 dead in the USA and 600+ dead in Italy.

 

COVID-19 CORONAVIRUS OUTBREAK

 

 

My comments were in regard to the ancillary impacts of this craze - hoarding, markets crashing, frenzied panic... 

 

while the numbers you list are indeed tragic for those affected, they do not, in any way, justify the world-wide panic we are experiencing, thus my “nothing burger” comment.  If I offended you, my sincere apologies. 

 

Just for reference, compare the numbers listed to the big picture:

 

 

FFA7D819-19E5-4E6D-A831-C305367879C7.jpeg

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Look, I know this is a serious issue and so my experience in talking with people about it, especially on forums, is that people tend to defer to 'worse case scenario' sympathy and even fear because it absolves them from the guilt of not taking it seriously enough when there is news of suffering and death. This is understandable, emotionally, but when considering the fact that people die everyday from a multitude of causes, the corona virus outbreak is pretty small in comparison. It's just that we're all paying attention to it, and so it is a very dramatic and upsetting.

 

I've been accused of 'downplaying' the issue simply because I am advocating for wellness and immune system education. I'm uncertain what people actually expect then. What should we be saying and doing to satisfy the sympathy for this situation? People are getting really upset because they can't be tested right now, or because they feel scared going to work with lots of other people around who may or may not be infected. But we all have to understand something - there aren't enough test kits to test everyone, and we cannot just halt our lives because of this or we will make it into a much worse disaster. So the potential for over-reacting is very high and very problematic. In fact, over-reacting is dangerous. If healthy people are admitting themselves because they have cold symptoms that takes very limited resources away from the vulnerable, who need all the care we can give them. Flooding our healthcare network with infectious people who can otherwise recover at home would make this problem a total catastrophe. We need to protect our doctors and nurses - only extreme cases should ever make it into a hospital building. This is part of the reason I am advocating wellness and care taking. learn how to care for others if they get sick. You might not have a choice if hospitals get over-loaded by panicked people.

 

It doesn't matter if you go to the hospital, or get tested, or stay home for the next 3 months. In the end, only your immune system will save you. That is an absolute matter of fact. If you get severely sick and are being treated for symptoms, you will still die if your immune system is not healthy enough to stop the infection. Doctors have nothing that can mitigate this virus once it gets inside of you - no different than the flu. This is primarily why people are dying. It's their time. There is no 'cure' for a virus infection, and viruses thrive in unhealthy tissue. That's their job. It is nature doing nature things.

 

The infection has a very high recovery rate, and infections that don't require hospitalization are well above 80%. That means the human immune system, in principle, can identify and kill the virus on its own. This means it's nothing like Ebola or Tetanus, which have fatality rates above 50% and hospitalization above 70%.

 

Nevertheless, when considering the entire world, a 1% fatality rate looks horrible. That means if 1 million people get infected, 10,000 people will likely die. The number are alarming, but this is a force of nature...it happens everyday on this planet from a variety of diseases.

 

We need to put this in perspective:

 

27,000 people die every day from cancer (75% are lifestyle related, smoking, diet, weight, etc)

25,000 people die every day from starvation

1,800 Americans die every day from heart disease

 

40,000 Americans die each year on average from suicide

30,000 - 70,000 Americans die each year from the flu

20,000 Americans die each year from homicide

 

The corona outbreak is serious, there is no question. But it is not the end of civilization. If you are healthy and take reasonable precautions, you'll be fine (there are exceptions, for even the flu can sometimes kill a young healthy person). If you're vulnerable because you're on meds, have auto-immune disease, over 70 years old, or are unhealthy - you're at high risk. But, you're always at high risk, whether the corona virus gets you or not. And that's part of the controversy - we're all paying attention to the corona virus and counting every single death and it looks like a catastrophe...but in reality, it's only a glimpse of what actually happens to people everyday from a variety of problems.

 

 

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Greg,

 

  I only wish that I could express myself as well as you just did. I AM at high risk, due to an immune system that has been less than average most of my life. I am 62 years old however, and consider myself fortunate... at least up till now. What is a minor sliver for most people is a potential hospitalization now days for me. I am more careful than ever, and only a couple of months ago, started a regiment of herbs that seem to have a positive effect. Believe me, that is almost never the case, as I have tried multiple things to address this problem over the years.

 

 It may surprise some people that if in fact, I am infected by any infection in my future, my plan is to let nature take its course, let alone for me to make a hard decision. I realize that we all have skin in this game, but then some more than others. I made my piece with it all long ago. Quality life, for now.

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Posted (edited)

While I sincerely hope that COVID-19 is not what is being reported, I don't think action should be based solely on hope.

The China CDC studied a large portion of the infected and found that the rates of death are much higher among older people.

This is being supported by data from Italy which has a much higher proportion of older people in their population than China or the US.

The proportion to watch is deaths compared to those who recovered.  There is a lag in time of the disease to affect the patient so comparing deaths to total cases is not accurate. % death = dead/ (dead + number recovered)

In Italy that percentage is currently 44%. With the stringent actions now in force in Italy that should improve.

In China that percentage is currently 4.8%. That is after China basically shut down the entire affected areas for the past 6 weeks.

imo, the virus will not just stop on its own and the rising rates of infection world wide are the evidence.

It has been estimated that COVID-19 is roughly as communicable as The Spanish Flu was in 1918.

About 28% of the population of the US caught The Spanish Flu (1918). 

Governments in 1918 basically misled the public and pretended that it was nothing more than a "normal" flu even when the death rates were much higher.

Using the Chinese study to determine the effect of COVID-19 on various age groups and assuming roughly the same spread rate there could be a million deaths among people over 55 in the US in the next 9 months. See the graph and chart below for the US (using census data.)

covid19-death-projection-28pct-likeflu1918.jpg.2474e98d19af8be6725e5640a9f674a5.jpg

If local, state, and federal governments do not establish a plan to severely curtail travel in the US as has been done in China and Italy, I think this is a likely death forecast. Do the math. This is only a death rate of about 1/2 percent, but 1.7 million will be dead. Does anyone think that would have an effect on the next election? How many families will have lost a grandparent, aunt, or uncle?

 

Here is a brief comment from a friend in Italy:

"I am in Verona Italy right now, and have been for 3 weeks. All schools closed, bars and restaurants must close by 6 pm. Most have simply shut down. If you go in a store, you must be one meter apart. They even have tape on the floors measured one meter to keep people separated. The streets are almost empty. Amazingly, the Italians are following the rules. We will see if this works. "

Edited by iamjohngalt
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Posted (edited)

@iamjohngalt

 

"About 28% of the population of the US caught The Spanish Flu (1918). 

Governments in 1918 basically misled the public and pretended that it was nothing more than a "normal" flu even when the death rates were much higher."

 

This is absolutely a true statement and it was actually because our government was trying to fund a war effort and sell war bonds to all its citizens at the time that they supressed news reporting and knowledge of the true number of deaths. The government actually caused more deaths by encouraging public gatherings for war funding. And they knew this at the time.

 

This is where you could say that the total number of fatalities is largely but not entirely up the your immune system. As in 1918 if the government did not encourage big gatherings and instead had initiated common sense containment and self-protection methods perhaps far fewer people would have died.

 

This is where the government can and should take the lead for common sense control (as little as that may be). Instead of ripping up each others speeches and refusing to shake hands with one another the parties should be working together. Making sure that people that have or may have COVID-19 don't have to keep working.  Whether you have insurance or can afford it should not make any difference either. This is the sort of thing that our government exists for.

Edited by straylight
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