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3 minutes ago, RichP714 said:

I believe that the social distancing plan is intended to address the situation you describe; it's not intended to reduce the number of deaths, or to prevent infection by isolation, it's just trying to manage the need for respirators with the availability of equipment and staff.

 

Which is the "Curve flattening" that everyone is talking about!

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Posted (edited)
18 minutes ago, DrummerJuice said:

 

Which is the "Curve flattening" that everyone is talking about!

 

Here's something to click on; two impulses on each graph, one describes the typical impulse response from a viral infection, the other describes a hypothetical reduction in the peak infection rate (so as not to overcome available hospital beds (more importantly the staff and respirators that will be required to treat those unlucky enough to need it).

 

The hopeful outcome isn't intended to reduce infections or lessen their severity, it is intended to reduce the peak (at the expense of the length) in order to not overcome the medical system.

 

As many have said, there are probably more viable alternatives to wellness than western medicine, but when you need a respirator, you probably can't survive very well at home.

 

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EDIT-after-the-fact:

 

I just noticed that your post ended with an ! not a ? so, nevermind

Edited by RichP714
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2 hours ago, Nahash5150 said:

Everyone should watch this:

 

 

 

Quite long, but information packed; some things:

 

1.  He mentioned proper use of PPE, and that is a very big deal; part of most overseas or responder type military assignments is training in proper use of PPE.  When properly fitted and sealed, the N95 mask is very difficult to breathe through; it's not something an individual would really have use for, and they'd likely hot be wearing it correctly anyway.

 

2. He mentions how 'poking the hive' can cause aerosolization, and the 6ft of social distancing measure, he doesn't include the stat on closed loop air circulation times, which I found interesting (in a small clinical setting, or medium sized household, a typical room's air is replaced every 35 minutes, not quick enough to prevent patient A's aerosolized infection to transfer to Patient B (who never even saw patient A, let alone stayed 6ft away).

 

3. He mentions the cytotoxicity of the infection , particularly in the lungs.  One can hope that this will quell the voices that think it all has to do with pre-existing conditions, or that the death rate is bogus because it includes people who 'would have died anyway', or that countries with higher air pollution will be hit harder, or that lazy smokers will get it bad and they deserve it for not 'exercising' their immune systems.  I hope so, but time will tell; I believe that there is a population out there that will condemn this and carry on with their own internal bias based assumptions.

 

4.  I wasn't aware of the cardiac cytotoxicity, I was more inclined to think lungs

 

5. Drinking lots of fluids can be counter-productive under some conditions

 

6. His advice to self-isolate/quarantine is very very important, but even in an area such as Omaha (not a remarkable situation thus far) there are people I know that have flat out denied that staying at home for 2 weeks is going to do anything, and they went to work anyway.  In some ways, this whole thing is  like a quiz; people that heed and respond tend to live in environments that flatten that curve quite handily, and those that are deniers are hurting the entire environment around them

 

Thanks for posting this

 

 

 

 

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Posted (edited)

Bears repeating if it's already been said, but a lot of folk are getting drafted into doing home deliveries for their employers - one of those, if you wanna get paid, this is what we got kinda thangs. Be aware that under normal circumstances, a lot of auto insurance companies WILL NOT COVER any losses sustained when using your private vehicle for business related activities! DO check with your agent first!

 

Edited by sKiZo
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18 hours ago, RichP714 said:

2. He mentions how 'poking the hive' can cause aerosolization, and the 6ft of social distancing measure, he doesn't include the stat on closed loop air circulation times, which I found interesting (in a small clinical setting, or medium sized household, a typical room's air is replaced every 35 minutes, not quick enough to prevent patient A's aerosolized infection to transfer to Patient B (who never even saw patient A, let alone stayed 6ft away).

 

According to the Chinese assessment, this was one of the primary means of transmission (busses, trains, etc).

 

18 hours ago, RichP714 said:

3. He mentions the cytotoxicity of the infection , particularly in the lungs.  One can hope that this will quell the voices that think it all has to do with pre-existing conditions, or that the death rate is bogus because it includes people who 'would have died anyway', or that countries with higher air pollution will be hit harder, or that lazy smokers will get it bad and they deserve it for not 'exercising' their immune systems.  I hope so, but time will tell; I believe that there is a population out there that will condemn this and carry on with their own internal bias based assumptions.

 

Cytotoxicity is not caused by the virus. Such a condition arises from immune activity. Remember, doctors aren't seeing people that have mild illness. They're seeing only about 11% of those tested that develop complications from underlying conditions. Cytotoxicity is likely because the virus has infected so much of the tissue that many of the cells are being destroyed by the killer-T cells which inject poison into cells that are infected with the virus. If the lungs are clogged and congested and can't expel the fluids and wastes, this is a very bad recipe for disaster. The macrophages are expected to consume all these dead cells but in a congested environment, this might not happen efficiently. Immune activity absolutely requires flushing out of wastes and contaminated fluids - that's why we cough, piss, sweat, sneeze and have a running nose when we're infected. The wastes must get out and get out quickly. That is why hydration is so vital when you're sick, and it's also why you should never suppress your 'symptoms'...like doctors enjoy doing. Doctors face a pretty serious conundrum though - they can't have a patient coughing, sneezing and spilling fluids...but they can't suppress them and expect the patient to live either. With most pneumonia cases, coughing and sneezing isn't so serious, but covid-19 patients can't be allowed to do this. This is a HUGE problem for doctors to deal with, as the video suggests.

 

Keep in mind pneumonia is a systemic condition. The infection and inflammation may be in the lungs, but when the O2 and CO2 exchange is interrupted, this causes severe problems with blood pressure, toxicity, heart rate and pretty much all vital organ functions. Getting rid of CO2 by breathing is the most vital and delicate operation of our body. If it is compromised by waste fluids gathering in the lungs then the entire body suffers drastically from toxicity.

 

19 hours ago, RichP714 said:

5. Drinking lots of fluids can be counter-productive under some conditions

 

I think he was actually talking about IV. The reason is the blood has to be kept at critical balance if the damage to lung tissue is severe because fluids are draining from the blood directly into the lungs due to the inflammation and damaged alveoli walls.  

 

19 hours ago, RichP714 said:

6. His advice to self-isolate/quarantine is very very important, but even in an area such as Omaha (not a remarkable situation thus far) there are people I know that have flat out denied that staying at home for 2 weeks is going to do anything, and they went to work anyway.  In some ways, this whole thing is  like a quiz; people that heed and respond tend to live in environments that flatten that curve quite handily, and those that are deniers are hurting the entire environment around them

 

 

Not all the experts agree with shutdowns, mostly because it's like driving with chopsticks. Too early or too late and it's meaningless. Without thorough, strategic testing, shutdowns are at best dubious. So hope for the best.

 

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4 minutes ago, Nahash5150 said:

Cytotoxicity is not caused by the virus

 

I was thinking previously not, but the video you posted Dr Z (an ER doc), says yes.  I understand your point that it's the T-cells that do the damage, but what caused the overabundance of T-cells in the first place?  Exposure to a novel pathogen that the body doesn't know how to handle; exposure to routine infections don't cause the reaction that causes the damage, exposure to something unknown does.

 

The Lung cell doesn't care whether it was scarred by the body's defenses, or the presence of the pathogen, but certainly without exposure to the pathogen, the scarring wouldn't have taken place at all; That certainly points to Covid-10 being cytotoxic to me.

 

4 minutes ago, Nahash5150 said:

Not all the experts agree with shutdowns, mostly because it's like driving with chopsticks. Too early or too late and it's meaningless. Without thorough, strategic testing, shutdowns are at best dubious. So hope for the best.

 

That sound like 'all the research isn't in' on the climate debate.  Shutdowns most definitely have worked in the past.  I've posted about this in history, and it's not a miracle cure (and it's not intended to be), but it's something than CAN be done easily and has a very high bang-for-the-buck.

 

 

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1 hour ago, RichP714 said:

The Lung cell doesn't care whether it was scarred by the body's defenses, or the presence of the pathogen, but certainly without exposure to the pathogen, the scarring wouldn't have taken place at all; That certainly points to Covid-10 being cytotoxic to me.

 

 

The condition caused by the virus is very serious and a huge mess, there's no question. However, the virus isn't cytotoxic like say, tetanus. Saying that covid-19 is a cytotoxic infection could then be misleading. So I was just trying to clear that up.

 

Severe reactions to this new coronavirus all have underlying conditions as an overwhelming factor. I'm not trying to prove any viewpoints about that - that is just the data.

 

The media, for whatever reason, want desperately to show this disease can kill anybody no matter what to spread the drama of danger. Every day now, they're parading stories about young people in the hospital (and mention rather casually at the conclusion of the story the poor kid has asthma ). That's no accident.

 

1 hour ago, RichP714 said:

 

That sound like 'all the research isn't in' on the climate debate.  Shutdowns most definitely have worked in the past.  I've posted about this in history, and it's not a miracle cure (and it's not intended to be), but it's something than CAN be done easily and has a very high bang-for-the-buck.

 

It's epidemiological. Isolation from a novel virus means the risk of catching it and spreading it remain the same.

 

If a large amount of a population recover and some die, then the novel virus has far less opportunity to spread, which actually decreases the overall risk. This is what nature actually intends.

 

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Posted (edited)
11 minutes ago, Nahash5150 said:

 

The condition caused by the virus is very serious and a huge mess, there's no question. However, the virus isn't cytotoxic like say, tetanus. Saying that covid-19 is a cytotoxic infection could then be misleading. So I was just trying to clear that up.

 

It's just that I've never heard a poster say 'everyone should watch this', and a post later disagree with the content; that's a new one one me.

 

Dr Z says Cytotoxic in a video

Rich remarks about things he'd learned from the video, such as the cytotoxicity

Greg encourages us to read watch the video

greg says not cytotoxic

rich mentions Dr Z said cytotoxic

greg says not AS cytotoxic

 

My head is spinning, so you didn't clear up much for me, sorry.

 

 

11 minutes ago, Nahash5150 said:

The media, for whatever reason, want desperately to show this disease can kill anybody no matter what to spread the drama of danger. Every day now, they're parading stories about young people in the hospital. That's no accident.

 

I still am not seeing this 'panic now' scenario happening; I see and hear talk about an 80% recovery rate, and the need to conserve respirators; that aqll seems responsible reporting to me

 

11 minutes ago, Nahash5150 said:

It's epidemiological. Isolation from a novel virus means the risk of catching it and spreading it remain the same.

 

If a large amount of a population recover and some die, then the novel virus has far less opportunity to spread, which actually decreases the overall risk. This is what nature actually intends.

 

 

No argument there from any direction that I can see; it bears repeating evidently that  these measures aren't intended to reduce the severity, increase the recovery or in any other way modify the 'overall risk' that you mentioned; they are simply resource management techniques, they work and they are easy to follow.  

 

 

Edited by RichP714

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1 hour ago, RichP714 said:

It's just that I've never heard a poster say 'everyone should watch this', and a post later disagree with the content; that's a new one one me.

 

Dr Z says Cytotoxic in a video

Rich remarks about things he'd learned from the video, such as the cytotoxicity

Greg encourages us to read watch the video

greg says not cytotoxic

rich mentions Dr Z said cytotoxic

greg says not AS cytotoxic

 

My head is spinning, so you didn't clear up much for me, sorry.

 

The virus is not cytotoxic. The condition can become cytotoxic. Any infection can become cytotoxic, especially if it is mishandled by drugs. The cytotoxic condition is observed mostly in patients with cardiovascular disease. They don't know exactly why yet (at least not medically, but I think they understand why intuitively).

 

Okay, maybe I'm taking some things for granted...let me try again.

 

The immune system can attack and kill viruses in two basic ways:

 

1) decode its antigens and make specific antibodies to bind to it, thus, preventing it from entering and hiding in cells, thus, dooming it to macrophage consumption and digestion.

2) decode peptide excretion from infected cells, then send killer-T's to inject those cells with a poison and kill everything inside it, including all the viruses that haven't exploded out of the cells' membranes.

 

 

We know two things as a matter of fact:

 

- The virus attacks the cell walls in the alveoli, as well as some types of cells in the kidneys, heart and gastrointestinal tract.

- The virus acts slowly.

 

^^^ systemtic condition ^^^

 

I know he says that some believe the virus is cytotoxic, but look at the writing on the wall...suppression of symptoms (patient starts to feel better) is not addressing the cause. The virus is now in the bloodstream if the patient has had severe pneumonia. So guess what, it's now everywhere in the body. It's really hard for doctors to see their own bias toward symptom suppression...it gets them in trouble a lot.

 

Anyway, immune response goes to defcon 4 - isolate and kill tissue in inflamed areas - aka, 'cytokine storm'. An extremely toxic condition. This is the result of a weak immune response, not an over-active one. The so called 'over-reaction' is the body's last resort to protect the brain and the heart from infection and is a very complex function of the body.

 

In summary:

 

If you get infected by this virus and are constipated and have unhealthy tissue, it's going to fuck your shit up because by attacking the lungs, it gets into your bloodstream is starts wrecking havoc on a body that can't shed wastes efficiently.

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20 minutes ago, Nahash5150 said:

Okay, maybe I'm taking some things for granted...let me try again.

 

The immune system can attack and kill viruses in two basic ways:

 

1) decode its antigens and make specific antibodies to bind to it, thus, preventing it from entering and hiding in cells, thus, dooming it to macrophage consumption and digestion.

2) decode peptide excretion from infected cells, then send killer-T's to inject those cells with a poison and kill everything inside it, including all the viruses that haven't exploded out of the cells' membranes.

 

 

We know two things as a matter of fact:

 

- The virus attacks the cell walls in the alveoli, as well as some types of cells in the kidneys, heart and gastrointestinal tract.

- The virus acts slowly.

 

^^^ systemtic condition ^^^

 

I know he says that some believe the virus is cytotoxic, but look at the writing on the wall...suppression of symptoms (patient starts to feel better) is not addressing the cause. The virus is now in the bloodstream if the patient has had severe pneumonia. So guess what, it's now everywhere in the body. It's really hard for doctors to see their own bias toward symptom suppression...it gets them in trouble a lot.

 

Anyway, immune response goes to defcon 4 - isolate and kill tissue in inflamed areas - aka, 'cytokine storm'. An extremely toxic condition. This is the result of a weak immune response, not an over-active one. The so called 'over-reaction' is the body's last resort to protect the brain and the heart from infection and is a very complex function of the body.

 

In summary:

 

If you get infected by this virus and are constipated and have unhealthy tissue, it's going to fuck your shit up because by attacking the lungs, it gets into your bloodstream is starts wrecking havoc on a body that can't shed wastes efficiently.

 

 

You're not taking anything for granted as far as I can see; the difference between inherited immunity mechanisms and acquired immunity is grade-school stuff.  Many may have forgotten this, but we learned it at one point in our lives.

 

Yes, yes and yes, suppression of system is a bad idea that happens a lot; you keep hammering that point, but I don't think it's really needed at this point; I think we all get that much

 

Long and short, this bug doesn't care if you or anyone thinks it's cytotoxic or can induce cytotoxicity, the end result (scarred lungs that weren't there previously) is the same, so the point is moot.

 

You've mentioned the cytokine storm as being aberrant behavior before, and in this point you are incorrect (remember Neil Tyson?).  A perfectly healthy individual can still become damaged by this, and cytokine reactions are NOT from weak immune responses, they are caused by strong immune responses to unknown pathogens.

 

 

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18 hours ago, RichP714 said:

 

I still am not seeing this 'panic now' scenario happening; I see and hear talk about an 80% recovery rate, and the need to conserve respirators; that aqll seems responsible reporting to me

 

So this is how democracy dies... one quarantine at a time.

 

The powerful New York City Media hasn't been beaming Vice President Cuomo's many news conferences nationwide? They are flooding the tri-state area with them. Cuomo has been panicking daily and today has been panicking about his need for 30,000 respirators and only receiving 400. As a politician he doesn't realize that those 30,000 machines must first be built and tested. Unless according to his need he expects all other governors to send him their idle respirators. Will your governor agree to that?

 

https://www.yahoo.com/news/coronavirus-n-y-astronomical-surge-121859774.html

 

Hysterical headlines today about an "astronomical surge" in cases. Doesn't mention that the surge in positives is to be expected because there is also an astronomical surge is testing being done. On a positive not there has not been an astronomical surge in deaths.

Steve

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The wealthy New Yorkers are flocking to their vacation homes on Long Island, Cape Cod, etc.

Massachusetts Barnstable County (Cape Cod) was one of the least infected counties in MA as of the weekend.

In the past two days - its number of confirmed cases has surpassed several other counties..... soon it will be the hotspot in MA.

 

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25 minutes ago, jeffs said:

The wealthy New Yorkers are flocking to their vacation homes on Long Island, Cape Cod, etc.

Massachusetts Barnstable County (Cape Cod) was one of the least infected counties in MA as of the weekend.

In the past two days - its number of confirmed cases has surpassed several other counties..... soon it will be the hotspot in MA.

 

 

Send them all to South Korea.

 

If they want the US to be more like China and South Korea, then anyone who complains about 'the response' will be arrested and thrown into quarantine. If anyone tests positive in an apartment building, weld all the doors and barricade the windows so NO ONE in the building can leave. The State of New York will be completely locked down - no one gets in, no one gets out, and if they try to leave they will be thrown into prison for crimes against humanity. If you start showing symptoms, then your family is mandated to throw you out onto the street so that the EMS or morgue can pick you up to increase efficiency.

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, SteveK said:

 

So this is how democracy dies... one quarantine at a time.

 

The powerful New York City Media hasn't been beaming Vice President Cuomo's many news conferences nationwide? They are flooding the tri-state area with them. Cuomo has been panicking daily and today has been panicking about his need for 30,000 respirators and only receiving 400. As a politician he doesn't realize that those 30,000 machines must first be built and tested. Unless according to his need he expects all other governors to send him their idle respirators. Will your governor agree to that?

 

https://www.yahoo.com/news/coronavirus-n-y-astronomical-surge-121859774.html

 

Hysterical headlines today about an "astronomical surge" in cases. Doesn't mention that the surge in positives is to be expected because there is also an astronomical surge is testing being done. On a positive not there has not been an astronomical surge in deaths.

Steve

Maybe Cuomo should have bought respirators instead of COVID test kits. Instead he blames Trump for everything including Cuomo's errors, something that Democrats have been doing every day since election day, November 2016. Looting scum.

 

I didn't vote for Trump and I think he's an insulting boor who is apparently addicted to public attention, but the Democrats should be ashamed for their attempts to reverse the result of the election.  If Republicans had tried to do that to Obama, the biased media would have insisted on impeaching every GOP member of con-gress. 

The recent Democrat actions to add unrelated spending to the relief bill is equally disgusting and revealing. The best thing to add to the bill would be single term limits for con-gress.

 

I predict that the COVID-19 surge is just beginning and every big US city will suddenly be a "hot spot" as they test more people.

 

BTW, if anyone really thinks that the virus has been controlled in China, think again.

https://www.breitbart.com/national-security/2020/03/19/5-reasons-to-doubt-chinas-claim-it-has-stopped-seeing-coronavirus-cases/

https://www.theepochtimes.com/after-wuhan-closes-all-makeshift-hospitals-a-patient-is-still-sick-and-refused-further-treatment_3273084.html

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From the CDC:

 

Key Points

  • Nationally, the percent of specimens testing positive for influenza at clinical laboratories continued to decrease while ILI activity increased for the second week in a row after declining for three weeks. Due to the ongoing COVID-19 pandemic, more people may be seeking care for respiratory illness than usual at this time.
  • Nationally, influenza A(H1N1)pdm09 viruses are now the most commonly reported influenza viruses this season. Previously, influenza B/Victoria viruses predominated nationally.
  • Laboratory confirmed influenza-associated hospitalization rates for the U.S. population overall remain moderate compared to recent seasons, but rates for children 0-4 years and adults 18-49 years are now the highest CDC has on record for these age groups, surpassing rates reported during the 2009 H1N1 pandemic.  Hospitalization rates for school-aged children (5-17 years) are higher than any recent regular season but remain lower than rates experienced by this age group during the pandemic.
  • Pneumonia and influenza mortality levels have been low, but 149 influenza-associated deaths in children have been reported so far this season. This number is higher than recorded at the same time in every season since reporting began in 2004-05, except for the 2009 pandemic.
  • CDC estimates that so far this season there have been at least 38 million flu illnesses, 390,000 hospitalizations and 23,000 deaths from flu.
  • Antiviral medications are an important adjunct to flu vaccine in the control of influenza. Almost all (>99%) of the influenza viruses tested this season are susceptible to the four FDA-approved influenza antiviral medications recommended for use in the U.S. this season.

 

Hospitalizations per 100,000 is 65.1 (all ages), with a 7.1% mortality rate (flu and pneumonia).

 

Which makes covid-19 seem like a vacation at this point. According to the math, it's safer to get covid-19 than the flu.

 

The numbers we see for the coronavirus is number of confirmed tested vs hospitalizations. It's still a skewed picture of data. However, what's undeniable is that it causes substantial hospitalizations in some areas. If Wuhan and Italy never made the news, what would we be thinking about all this right now?

 

So far, only two outbreaks in the entire world have caused stress on local healthcare facilities - Wuhan and Italy. I don't think these outbreaks have been explained properly. What the hell is going on? It seems that the total number of infected is substantially higher than implied. But why some areas are overrun by severe illness is a bit boggling to me if we consider what happens with the flu and pneumonia every year.

 

A better question, since the flu is still in widespread circulation right now...

 

How many covid-19 cases also have the flu and/or bacterial pneumonia? Pneumonia happens to be the 5th leading cause of death without covid-19.

 

I'm not writing this to oppose the shutdowns. I'm trying to understand what is going on with the hospitalizations because the virus doesn't seem to be as dangerous as expected. Yes, it definitely spreads rapidly but part of that reason is because so many people don't get sick from it!

 

Are we looking at a feather that causes the house of cards to fall over?

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4 hours ago, Nahash5150 said:

So far, only two outbreaks in the entire world have caused stress on local healthcare facilities - Wuhan and Italy. I don't think these outbreaks have been explained properly. What the hell is going on? It seems that the total number of infected is substantially higher than implied. But why some areas are overrun by severe illness is a bit boggling to me if we consider what happens with the flu and pneumonia every year.

 

The religion is Technology, it demands progress. To point out the major flaws in their 'progress at any cost' model is to be labeled a heretic.

 

We knew that our overuse of antibiotics and other drugs was going to eventually create Super Bugs that we would not have a defense against. But faith that technology would provide a solution over ruled common sense.

 

In Wuhan and Italy traveling along with Covid-19 was/is a particularly virulent Super Bug that is decimating the lungs. From the beginning of the crisis in Wuhan it was reported that  doctors were desperately resorting to cancer drugs, aids drugs and toxic drug cocktails in an attempt to save people. Why do this? because none of the conventional therapies for Pneumonia were working anymore.

 

The high priests of technology are still confident that they will find an effective toxic cocktail.... Until the next super bug evolves.

Steve

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this coronavirus is hardly a superbug. It spreads rapidly because it is a very mild infection. H1N1 spread throughout the world just as easily, and that was a pretty bad cold - I caught that one. But there wasn't nearly the media-gasm about it like this, even though it caused 19,000 deaths worldwide and infected upwards of 500 million. It too, caused ARDS, just like the seasonal flu. However, once the media got over it and found something else to panic about, the H1N1 pandemic was ignored and countries just stopped testing for it and tracking it. So the overall infection and death rate are not known.

 

Bet you didn't know that the flu causes the same disease as coronavirus. Well, it does. 

 

The real problem around all this is the arrogance of control. For whatever reason, we now expect things like this be under our control. This reckless arrogance is what is causing all the drama, conflicts and total uproar surrounding this situation. The virus itself is fairly innocuous, but because it's new, doctors around the world are having a hard time dealing with it because there are no treatments to address it specifically. Medical doctors rely on methods. They are not really trained to 'wing it'. They avoid such guess work actually, because it's a liability to their practice. 

 

The complicated nature of all this is totally unappreciated. Like I pointed out above, there are no 'standards' on testing, on what counts as a 'case', what counts as a 'death' and so on. For instance, is it considered a covid 'death' if a person dies of a heart attack but tests positive for coronavirus? How do we know for certain that all deaths reports are from COVID-19, which is specifically, ARDS (acute respiratory distress syndrome). We don't. For all we know, people are dying from choking but because they test positive for coronovirus, it's a death tally.

 

So really, what's reliable about this is the political conflicts. This is a political crisis. The virus is just a weapon in the war over power.

 

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21 hours ago, Nahash5150 said:

 

I read about that. I wonder how their voters feel.

 

Nothing new there on either side, they both do that sorry of thing.  Lately, Republican legislatures have been trying to slip abortion law changes that favor their doctrine into completely unrelated bills.  That's just a fact of life.

 

Personally, I wonder how supporters of legislators like Mitch McConnell feel about them holding up coronaries relief because they feel that certain workers would be incentives to stay home and collect money rather than go back to work.

 

That's a sociopathic response

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Posted (edited)
21 hours ago, Nahash5150 said:

 

Are we looking at a feather that causes the house of cards to fall over?

 

We'll see, there's potential.

My brother works E R in a hospital in Manhattan, and advisory position in 7 hospitals in Long island.

They are all very much on alert and under pressure, regardless of your regard.

They are seeing novel things from a novel disease; one that leaves you irrevocably damaged after it visits you, irrespective of the severity of the individual's response.

They're seeing things they've never seen before that complicate care, like the razor thin line between saving ones life with ventilation, or popping their alveoli because the lungs are so brittle.

One of the reasons I left the medical track.  With electronics, if I do something errant, then something expensive needs even more parts.  In medicine you have to learn by experience that a ventilation protocol that works for most cases can be lethal in others, and gaining that experience takes lives; I couldn't deal; I'm weak in that regard.

 

We're getting a lesson that cash and wealth are not equivalent.  Richest country in the world?  Maybe the one that values it's citizen's lives the most?

 

1 hour ago, Nahash5150 said:

 

So really, what's reliable about this is the political conflicts. This is a political crisis. The virus is just a weapon in the war over power.

 

 

Not to lump in with those that are happy about this because they think it's an end times situation and they'll be ' in the lap of god' soon, but........

 

Maybe WE are the infection, and COV-19 is the Earth's immune response?

Edited by RichP714

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I think SteveK was referring to people being susceptible to SECONDARY bacterial infection and this bacteria may be resistant to antibiotics (superbug) because of overuse of antibiotics.  He wasn't calling the Covid-19 a superbug.

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