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Submariner here and happy to join the site - this is my first topic.  I used that "handle" as I was driving a submarine in the late 70's out of Groton, CT when I became acquainted with and had never heard anything so crisp/realistic/nice as the Carver M-400 coupled a C-4000 powering Dahlquist DQ-10's. Sonic holography was simply astounding. Of course, neither of the Carver units nor the DQ-10's fit aboard my boat, but they did make my BOQ room rock. 

Later I got an M-500 when I decided to expand with a Dahlquist DQ-1W base cube and powered the cube with the M-400.

I've found over the years (at different houses - I retired from the Navy) that I usually only set up the M-500 and C-4000.  Now I'm setting down some roots and want to really enjoy my vinyl collection.

I've been doing some reading about different alternative preamps and from what I've read on this site and on other sources that the C-1 preamp with the Bill D modification makes the C-1 (still with sonic holography) a very attractive component when compared to the relatively high cost alternatives out in the market compared to high.  And I just feel like a change as I don't use the surround/delay nor most of the other features of the C-4000.

I'd really appreciate your learned opinions to help me confirm that the C-1/Bill D mod unit is a worthy upgrade (I'd sell the C-4000 (till have the original box)).

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The BillD C-1 (or C-11) will outshine the stock C-4000.

The design philosophy of the C-1 was (if I can paraphrase BillD) "Make it sound like it wasn't there".

The engineer that developed the mod, focused on noise reduction throughout the preamp. 

 

Of course, we are comparing a standard preamp (C-4000) with an upgraded unit (new op amps, bi-polar audio caps replacing polarized caps in the signal path, upgraded resistors, etc). 

 

Many of these updates can be applied to the C-4000, but its hard to beat the value and quality of a BillD C-1.

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It's worth it to set up rear channels of C-4000 with an external amp.

Sonic hologram + rear channels gives the illusion you are in a club or orchestra.

Much better than SH alone.

 

I modded Bill D's C-4000, and we communicated regularly about the upgrades.

Some of the changes went into his C-1 mod.

What serial number is your C-4000?  Silver or anthracite?

 

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Hello submariner, and welcome to thecarversite.com. We're glad you're hear. ;) There is a lot of information here, much technical know how, and a pretty good bunch of folks that are happy to help.

 

I have a 4000t and a C-1 that have both been serviced and upgraded. The 4000t is a later iteration of the C-4000, and my C-1 has the BillD modification. I love them both. Placing either of them in my main 2 channel rig is the right choice. The 4000t is paired with a M500t mkII, and the result is phenomenal.  The BillD c-1 is paired with a M1.0t and the result is phenomenal. :D 


Once you get to Novice status, please consider uploading some pics of your gear in the Members Systems area. We all like pics of all kinds of audio gear.


In the meantime, kick your shoes off, turn up the music, and welcome aboard.

 

giphy.gif

 

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Welcome, @submariner, you found the right place, and lots of good experience to share on your question.

 

I'm going to guess, that you will want to compare for yourself!  get both,..., you can't have too much Carver gear. 😉 

 

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Greetings  @submariner  We're glad to have you aboard!!

 

As for the preamps, I have 4 x BillD C1, a BillD C11 as well as a stock C4000 and there is no comparison.  The C4000 was good in its day but it's time has passed even if it's been restored YMMV...

 

 

Welcome-03.gif

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14 hours ago, Will Meyer said:

The BillD C-1 (or C-11) will outshine the stock C-4000.

The design philosophy of the C-1 was (if I can paraphrase BillD) "Make it sound like it wasn't there".

The engineer that developed the mod, focused on noise reduction throughout the preamp. 

 

Of course, we are comparing a standard preamp (C-4000) with an upgraded unit (new op amps, bi-polar audio caps replacing polarized caps in the signal path, upgraded resistors, etc). 

 

Many of these updates can be applied to the C-4000, but its hard to beat the value and quality of a BillD C-1.

Thank you very much.  Just started snorkeling through all the great advice.

 

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14 hours ago, Will Meyer said:

The BillD C-1 (or C-11) will outshine the stock C-4000.

The design philosophy of the C-1 was (if I can paraphrase BillD) "Make it sound like it wasn't there".

The engineer that developed the mod, focused on noise reduction throughout the preamp. 

 

Of course, we are comparing a standard preamp (C-4000) with an upgraded unit (new op amps, bi-polar audio caps replacing polarized caps in the signal path, upgraded resistors, etc). 

 

Many of these updates can be applied to the C-4000, but its hard to beat the value and quality of a BillD C-1.

Thanks very much Will.

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11 hours ago, Sk1Bum said:

Hello submariner, and welcome to thecarversite.com. We're glad you're hear. ;) There is a lot of information here, much technical know how, and a pretty good bunch of folks that are happy to help.

 

I have a 4000t and a C-1 that have both been serviced and upgraded. The 4000t is a later iteration of the C-4000, and my C-1 has the BillD modification. I love them both. Placing either of them in my main 2 channel rig is the right choice. The 4000t is paired with a M500t mkII, and the result is phenomenal.  The BillD c-1 is paired with a M1.0t and the result is phenomenal. :D 


Once you get to Novice status, please consider uploading some pics of your gear in the Members Systems area. We all like pics of all kinds of audio gear.


In the meantime, kick your shoes off, turn up the music, and welcome aboard.

 

giphy.gif

 

Thanks very much.  I'm enjoying the replies and advice!  And I will send in some pics when I'm able to.

 

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7 hours ago, Charlie said:

Greetings  @submariner  We're glad to have you aboard!!

 

As for the preamps, I have 4 x BillD C1, a BillD C11 as well as a stock C4000 and there is no comparison.  The C4000 was good in its day but it's time has passed even if it's been restored YMMV...

 

 

Welcome-03.gif

I am leaning toward just a straight forward 2 channel set up, and that too is why I was looking at the C-1.  Sure seems like the C-11 (C-1 with the BillD mod) is the way to go.

Thanks for the advice.

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17 hours ago, jvandyke_texas said:

It's worth it to set up rear channels of C-4000 with an external amp.

Sonic hologram + rear channels gives the illusion you are in a club or orchestra.

Much better than SH alone.

 

I modded Bill D's C-4000, and we communicated regularly about the upgrades.

Some of the changes went into his C-1 mod.

What serial number is your C-4000?  Silver or anthracite?

 

It is Silver; I'll post the serial number in a follow up.

Serial #0773.

Edited by submariner
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9 minutes ago, submariner said:

am leaning toward just a straight forward 2 channel set up, and that too is why I was looking at the C-1.  Sure seems like the C-11 (C-1 with the BillD mod) is the way to go.

Just to clarify... the C-11 is a slightly newer version of the C-1. The C-1 has a gray faceplace (anthracite), while the C-11 is black. The C-11 has a precog board in it (its not very usefull) and slightly different buttons.  The BillD mod is the same between either of these amps since they are essentially the same. The C-11 is more of a rare bird, you'll see 10 C-1's for every C-11. Used the C-11 commands maybe $100 more on the market.

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Just to expand a bit on Will's comment, here's a pic of a C-11

 

42959-cc47535a-carver_c11_preamplifier__

 

The control buttons under the Carver brand are round, and on the C-1 they're rectangular. The labels on the selector switch are different too. 

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4 hours ago, Sk1Bum said:

Just to expand a bit on Will's comment, here's a pic of a C-11

 

42959-cc47535a-carver_c11_preamplifier__

 

The control buttons under the Carver brand are round, and on the C-1 they're rectangular. The labels on the selector switch are different too. 

Thank you Sk1bum. I did take away a misinterpretation of the C-11 - thanks for straightening that out for me. 

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Low serial number C-4000s like #0773 do not have the quiet phono stage.

There was a factory bulletin and a replacement upgrade to the SH unit for low SN.

For $67 you sent the preamp in, and Carver Co. performed the upgrade.

If you did not do that, then there isn't a "C" written after the serial number on the back.

 

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I did not do that (the notice probably never made it to me) and so I did not send it in - so I don't have the C.  So my unit is Really vintage - and that's probably a situation that needs a remedy.  

Thanks.

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On 2/13/2021 at 7:16 PM, submariner said:

I did not do that (the notice probably never made it to me) and so I did not send it in - so I don't have the C.  So my unit is Really vintage - and that's probably a situation that needs a remedy.  

Thanks.

Welcome submariner! You have some nice gear there. If you are going to keep it, it is worth getting it refurbished. It will sound it’s best and have the service bulletins completed as well. 

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I'm enjoying the education and looking forward to more - especially about the mods & modifiers out there.  Thanks.  

Pictures when I'm able.  And refurb or new C-1 w/BillD is in my future. 

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