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Which version of c4000 to buy?


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The early version is the champagne color with phono input 1 and 2.  The later version is a darker gun metal grey with one MM phono input and one MC input. Apparently the time delay is shorter on the later version. Are there other differences?   Which version should I get and then have it restored ? 

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@740carver Very Interesting Question, and this response is only focused on the original question of which 4000 to buy. 

 

For a few months I was able to listen to the handy work, and the magic it produced when Nelion restored a very early version of the 4000. I just wish that I had spent the time to read the manual in detail to find out what the full capabilities were.

 

Download the two manuals that are available on this site if you haven’t done it already.

 

The 4000 has the Time Delay; Ambience Reproduction System, whereas the 4000t has what the manual calls a Digital Time Lens.

 

The Time Delay; Ambience Reproduction System, has 20-watt amp(s) built in that can power “small speakers” scattered around your room. The explanation of this offering in the 4000 covers about 5 pages starting on page 24 of the 4000 manual.

 

A special note on top left of page 27 of the 4000 manual said that the delay switch range was changed from 35/50 to 16/25 ms for better sonic performance. I would note this when looking at different candidates.

 

The 4000t's Digital Time Lens is explained 0n page 13 of the 4000t manual.

 

I would also take the time to look at page 4 of the 4000 manual and page 4 of the 4000t in particular the explanations of buttons 22, 26, 27, 28, and 29.

 

I get the feeling that the 4000t “Digital Time Lens” was designed around what sounds like were the shortcomings of the digital reproduction of Analog material. And the internal amps were taken out to allow room for this new circuitry (Only speculation on my part). With the internal amp(s) taken out this allows for the addition of more Carver amps to help drive this feature.

 

So, which one to choose? Door 1 or Door2?

 

My experience was with the 4000 and I enjoyed every minute of listening in just the two-speaker mode. I can "only assume" that the 4000t will be as good if not better.

 

Your choice but let Nelion @Nahash5150do his magic and restore it to better than new condition. Ask about having the phono amps, time delay, auto correlator and sonic holography circuits tuned and calibrated. Money well spent in my opinion.

 

Hope this helps.

 

Edited by BobTFM35
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All great points.  The 4000t is not an option as it doesn’t have the auto correlation and peak unlimiter which I need for an all analog tape and vinyl system. 
    However it does look like there were two “versions” of the c4000 itself.  Both have the time day output/amps, SH, and AC/PU. 
     The earlier Version 1 has a 35/50 time delay switch and has a phono 1 and phono 2 inputs.  It has the champagne faceplate color.  Probably manufactured from 1979 thru 1982. 
     Version 2 has a darker faceplate , almost black , with a gun metal outer plate. It has the shorter 15/35 time delay and has phono input labeled MM and MC.  Probably manufactured 1982 to 1984. 
     so question is which phono section of the two versions better ?  Is the AC  or SH circiu better in the earlier  or later version ?

Anyone know if the build quality etc was different or changed during those different times?    Yes, planning on having Nelion restore it?  Also , Thoughts on doing a BillD update on a c4000?   Thanks all. 

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To me, the C4000 with its internal amps, confuses things..., 

 

I have and use daily a 4000t.

 

The surround channels are driven by proper external Carver amps, e.g., when set up for that purpose, I have an M4.0t on main L and R, an M1.0t on surround L and R, and C is driven by a power-steered m1.5.

 

In addition to the technical thoughts above, this for me is Just how I like it..., YMMV.

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The 4000 that I was using was returned to my son after I got back my Sunfire TGIV from restoration.

 

I did like the feature on the 4000 for the AC PU especially when button 19 is engaged. This is the Correlation-Automatic Threshold system that self-adjusts. Everything rolled into one unit which was kind of nice. I can see why you are leaning toward the 4000.

 

With the Sunfire back in the system I introduced a PL1000 Series II to take care of my Vinyl and tape collection just as @Dennis47 suggested and has worked just fine.

 

I don’t use the built-in phono preamps in the Sunfire because of the distance of my TT from the Sunfire. I employed a Bellari PA550 3-Channel Phono Preamp into a switch box. The Cassette decks also go into that same switch box and then the output from the switch box goes into the PL 1000 II before going to the Sunfire. Sounds like much but it works just fine.

 

For my case this is how I incorporated the feature that I liked in the 4000 into the Sunfire. Not everyone will like this system but for me it’s how I blended the old with the new, or not so new.

 

As @AndrewJohn pointed out there is a distinct advantage of having proper external “Carver Amps” for the surround mode when set up. For one thing you can mix and match amps as they are acquired and placed into your system. For my current system I have a similar arrangement in that I have a dedicated amp for each of the five speakers. Two 35 and three 15’s.

 

I ventured down my road a little different than someone else. I kind of like separate units that just do one job and hopefully do it well. With my present equipment, and if I did not have a preamp, I would lean toward the 4000t.

 

But then again if a good 4000 crossed my path I would be hard pressed to resist it, saying this will work just fine in the “D” system that I can build upon.

 

In the end no matter what you choose, you will enjoy the music that it produces.

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@BobTFM35 The Carver C-4000 we share is #0639. It is one of the earliest examples around. It has the Peak Unlimiter option. It seems the 4000t did away with that. I use that 100% of the time with vinyl, cassette and cd listening.  It's like a dynamic range expander of sorts. I like it. 

 

Another benefit of #0639 is that is has Holographic Listening Angle adjustments, which I haven't got around to testing just yet but I'm looking forward to doing so. 

 

My vote is for the earlier C-4000!

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