My updated systems.

[Ratamahatta 386]

I have not updated my systems for a long time here.  Both are in an unfinished basement side by side and I have to move my right surround speaker when I listen to my 2 ch rig, mild pita. I did try an upstairs room but it was a roughly a 10' cube and despite my best efforts it sounded like crap.  I decided to let my wife have the living room and not put anything besides a small TV in an armoire, plus I don't want to worry about my gear when people come over. 

  So anyway the main home theater consists of Quad Z4 mains, Paradigm monitor 7v7 center, it matches the Quads because both the grills are magnetic😉.  Sony STR-DA5700 ES receiver.  Lexicon 225 (aka Bryston 4B ST) amp. Sony DVP S7700 and CDP CA70ES for CD playback. Some cheap @$$ Sony Bluray player and a Roku. Subs are the Parts Express 12" dual passive  500watt  reference kits, I love my DIY projects, they do sound really amazing though. Side surrounds are Boston CR-7 and rear are some Def Tec BP1.2X. Screen is a 110" and projector is an Epson home cenema 2150.  Most of the power wires, ic's and speaker cables are Emotiva. I did finish the wall behind the couch so it would feel a bit more homey. I put a few acoustic panels on the walls and ceiling but not much as the walls are insulated concrete.  It sounds pretty decent now, I might finish the basement one day but not now not knowing if we will stay here in Colorado or not.

Anyway enough of the boring crap, pics

[Ratamahatta 386]

2.1 channel rig is as follows, well for right now anyway. Sony ES SS M7 mains, Sunfire true architectural subwoofer, totally rebuilt Threshold S/300 series 2 amp, Sony STR DA2ES receiver using as a pre. Sony DVP S770 and CDP CA 70ES for CD playback. Again Emotiva for power cords and IC's.  

 

  

[Ratamahatta 386]

Other gear that sometimes gets substituted in my 2 channel rig, ATI AT1502 amp.  Sunfire dark rosewood True EQ 10", the one I just had to put more sufficient feet on so it does not walk.  Earthquake MKIV 10" but not too often. Parts express Solstice DIY speakers. Zaph SR 71  DIY speakers with custom made cabinets. 

 

[4krow 4,398]

I told you guys. A part of me cannot understand how to get this point in my work. beautiful design and workmanship. To some, it is seemingly natural.

 

 Now having said that, do you have favorites among your builds for sound? I keep thinking that I do, and then I hear another.

[Ratamahatta 386]

11 minutes ago, 4krow said:

I told you guys. A part of me cannot understand how to get this point in my work. beautiful design and workmanship. To some, it is seemingly natural.

 

 Now having said that, do you have favorites among your builds for sound? I keep thinking that I do, and then I hear another.

Thanks, Some of the other guys DIY work puts mine to shame. I lean towards the Solstice but am pretty sure I have not played them long enough to have them fully broke in yet.  

[4krow 4,398]

 Well, I am beginning to believe that cabinet building needs to have more 'art' than accuracy in my case. This is not a bad thing either. Even a subtle change in design can make it yours alone. I did this way back when I built furniture. Start with a shaker design and add some lines that are not shaker. You end up with a unique piece that is yours.

 Now, you mention about break in. In some cases, with drivers, break in is actually pretty noticeable. In fact, with one driver, I almost put it back in the box to send back! But I gave it a couple of hours and was really surprised how much it changed. It was almost all in the midrange. It went from nasty to yah, I would own this.

 This is sort of happening with the present Scan Speak drivers, but not nearly as much.

[Ratamahatta 386]

The great thing about DIY is that you can get really high quality for not a lot of money. The bad thing is not to many people will appreciate it and you loose a ton on resale if you can sell it at all. The Quads I got used and the reason the guy got rid of them was because they were too bright. The ribbon tweeters were not broke in yet and they took over 200 hrs to break in. now they are some of the best sounding speakers I have ever heard, especially the top end. 

Edited November 6, 2022 by Ratamahatta

[Ratamahatta 386]

OK updated once again. Martin Logan Theos mains, Martin Logan Stage center. dual SVS SB 3000 subwoofers. I ditched the Sony 5 disc cd player. I had to raise the screen up a bit to accommodate the center speaker. 

 

 

I turned the 2.1 channel rig to the other wall and got a Sony STR DA5400ES receiver for a pre, I sold the Threshold S300 and right now am using ATI 1502. I have a Bryston 3B SST2 on the way.  I also got a Paradigm Studio Sub 12.  I am using the Solstice speakers for the time being and have the Quad Z-4 and my other Sr-71 builds in the rotation.  I have decided to let the rest go. 

 

 

[Ratamahatta 386]

I decided to keep the Snells for now and got the Bryston 3B SST2 in and it sounds amazing. 

 

[Ratamahatta 386]

So years and years ago I tried some Magnepans, I can't remember the model, I just got them cheap but never liked the way they sounded. I got rid of them and never gave them a second thought.  I also tried some Martin Logans a long time ago with the same result, just kind of dull and lifeless and never gave them a second thought either.  After my recently acquired  Martin Logans and how awesome they sound, I have a real hard time listening to box speakers. 

  A good deal came up for some gently used and in like new condition Magnepan MG .7 speakers so I thought I would give them another try and I am glad I did. Same result as the ML, vocals and highs are just plain clearer, not bright,  just clearer and clearer.  I don't get fatigued even when listening to higher levels for hours. They blend perfectly with my Paradigm studio sub 12. They also sound phenomenal with my recently acquired Bryston 3b sst 2. No idea of their peak power handling capabilities but perfectly loud with what the little Bryston throws out without barely getting warm. 

   All I can figure is that the older Martin Logans and Magnepans I tried were not taken care of and pretty much done in. I am glad I gave them both a second try. So I am pretty much done with box speakers for now, I will keep the ones I made as it is near impossible to get rid of them but everything else is going away. 

 

[Sk1Bum 9,436]

My Martin Logan's are the entry level ESL, and I love them. They're exactly as you described, clean, clear...  

 

[Ratamahatta 386]

OK, one last upgrade I swear, lol. I got a Parasound Classic 200 pre. I have it hooked up to both the analog and digital inputs (coax) As far as an improvement over the 5400ES  I don't know. Sony ES receivers make really good preamps. But I do like the ease of use over the Sony, it has dedicated sub volume right on the remote, the Sony has to go through a menu to get to the sub volume every time. and switching back between analog and digital I notice very little difference as well.  I have done the external dac a long time ago and for standard CD's I really did not hear any difference over a good internal dac which both of these possess and the Sony does as well.

 

[jjptkd 1,155]

 Nice, congrats on the new Pre! Parasound makes some nice gear I seriously considered the newer P6 before I picked up the Schiit Freya. Ease of use is certainly a factor for me so having sub controls right on the remote is handy. I don't know how many good preamps I've passed along or passed up all together over the years simply because they didn't have a remote which is mostly a moot point now for me with remote DAC's.

 

 I've heard some ML's and Maggies in the past was always impressed with their midrange capabilities; very big, open smooth and crystal clear sound. I've often thought about trying them out for myself if the right deal were to emerge.

Edited February 25 by jjptkd

[Ratamahatta 386]

Thanks, that's what it took for me was the right deals to emerge.  I always wanted to try Martin Logan and Magnepan but never wanted to throw any real money at it. The ones I have tried in the past were cheap and pretty much done in. I just could never get past the fact that they had no actual drivers as I know them, (tweeter, mid-range or woofer) and relied on some voodoo magic.  They are magic alright, but in a good way. The Martin Logan's I got from a friend, I went over to look at a subwoofer and he had the ML set up with them and told me they were for sale also.  Long story short I eventually got them with a Stage center channel he had.  After comparing them to my best box speakers I had, the box speakers came up short especially at higher levels. I thought about another pair for my 2ch rig but then thought maybe it was time to give Magnepan another try. Luckily a place near me that deals in used hi end gear just got my pair in and I got them the next day.  After listening to them I decided that my box speakers were going to go, I kept the ones I made but the rest are gone. 

   So that's it, I can't think of a reason to go back to box speaker unless I want to listen to music so loud it makes my ears bleed, LOL. 

[Ar9Jim 4,656]

Had a very similar experience switching to Magnepans. Done with box speakers.

I listened to them for a year and then put the box speakers back in for the neck of it.

 

After taking a long break, the strong points of the box speaker were more apparent in my case.

 

There are some advantages and disadvantage to both types, but you may not hear the good in the box design until switching back.

 

Now, I switch back and forth a couple times per year. Keeps it interesting. Love the spaciousness of the open baffles.

Edited February 25 by Ar9Jim

[Sk1Bum 9,436]

16 hours ago, Ar9Jim said:

There are some advantages and disadvantage to both types, but you may not hear the good in the box design until switching back.

 

 

How true! I use NHT 3.3s for the front channels in my home theater, and they sound incredible too. 

[Ratamahatta 386]

There are pros and cons to anything. I loved my NHT 3.3's, I do notice subtle differences, snare drums seem to have more depth and attack with box speakers. There are other differences, that's why I kept my Parts express Solstice and Zaph Audio SR71, they are some of the best box speakers I have ever heard.  I am sure I will try other box speakers as I find deals but for now I am just really liking the clarity and openness of these. 

[Ar9Jim 4,656]

Variety is the spice of life they say.. Open baffle and box give a nice contrast without changing gear. Now you have me going back to the maggies. Its time. Thanks.😁

[straylight 384]

On 2/25/2023 at 9:20 AM, Ratamahatta said:

I always wanted to try Martin Logan and Magnepan but never wanted to throw any real money at it. The ones I have tried in the past were cheap and pretty much done in. I just could never get past the fact that they had no actual drivers as I know them, (tweeter, mid-range or woofer) and relied on some voodoo magic.  They are magic alright, but in a good way. The Martin Logan's I got from a friend, I went over to look at a subwoofer and he had the ML set up with them and told me they were for sale also.  Long story short I eventually got them with a Stage center channel he had.  After comparing them to my best box speakers I had, the box speakers came up short especially at higher levels. I thought about another pair for my 2ch rig but then thought maybe it was time to give Magnepan another try. Luckily a place near me that deals in used hi end gear just got my pair in and I got them the next day.  After listening to them I decided that my box speakers were going to go, I kept the ones I made but the rest are gone. 

   So that's it, I can't think of a reason to go back to box speaker unless I want to listen to music so loud it makes my ears bleed

 

I also had a hard time transitioning from Apogee Stage ribbons to any other box speaker on the planet.  The Apogees were just more natural and open sounding in the midrange and the difference with box speakers was always some kind of annoying peak or resonance that interfered with the sound.

 

The Apogees were my main reference speakers for over 25 years because no other box speaker could measure up. Here is a picture of them at Carverfest 2022. The cabin we had had excellent acoustics with no early reflections from walls or ceiling to negatively impacting the sound. The vaulted ceilings were well over 20 feet high. Incredible sound.

 

 

 

I did finally find a box speaker that could measure up but as you can see it really doesn't look much like a box...but it is.

 

 

The B&W 800D (D for diamond encrusted tweeter) were every bit as natural sounding with an even greater sense of air and ambience around the musicians and instruments. They are more dynamic and with the right amplification can play much louder with less compression than the ribbons. The electrostatic types also have compression even with competent amplification, so to me the compression gets greater at greater volume ( I can't seem to escape this impression no matter which stats I listen to). Not so with the B&W 800D. These speakers can reach sound pressure levels that I'm sure can damage hearing...so discretion is advised! They have 3 inch thick MFD internal  bracing in a matrix lattice arrangement. Each of the modules...tweeter, midrange and woofers... are contained within independent modules that are isolated from one another. I think it works but there IS a downside. Each speaker weighs in at over 275 lbs. ! The cross-over components are isolated from any vibration by their presence in the aluminum base. 

 

You could use a subwoofer with these but it would probably be pointless, they have adequate bass output in any normal sized room down to about 25-30Hz. 

 

 

Edited February 28 by straylight

[straylight 384]

On 2/25/2023 at 9:20 AM, Ratamahatta said:

I always wanted to try Martin Logan and Magnepan but never wanted to throw any real money at it. The ones I have tried in the past were cheap and pretty much done in. I just could never get past the fact that they had no actual drivers as I know them, (tweeter, mid-range or woofer) and relied on some voodoo magic.  They are magic alright, but in a good way.

 

I once talked to the guys at Martin Logan about a pair of Sequel IIs planars that didn't sound quite right (they sounded bass heavy). I bought them from a guy who lived in the wilderness and heated his cabin via woodstove. Turns out that woodstoves and Martin Logans are a very bad combination because the smoke particles adhere to the ML drivers over time and pollute the surface making it sound lifeless and dull. He told me about a solution...wash them...that's right you can wash em' down and restore that once vibrant sound!  Well I lucked out with one of the speaker panels but the other panel did not clean up too well and I wound up buying new panels from the ML guys anyways.

 

So I was curious about them and took the dead panel apart to see what was on the inside. I discovered something really odd. The connection wire on the INSIDE connecting the panels together and connecting it to the outside world and its crossover electronics was a very gently looped but also slightly twisted pair of copper wires...NOT soldered and NOT tightly twisted together. I thought this was a defect and somebody at the factory had not finished the job. When I queried the ML guys about this they said "Oh yes, we found out the the purist connection between panels and the rest of the system is copper to copper"...they swore to me they could HEAR the solder connection whenever it was present in any internal wiring. Fascinating finding and If I hadn't dissected that dead driver panel I would have never found this out. It seems that trade secrets abound in all these high end products...

 

 

Edited February 28 by straylight

[Ratamahatta 386]

  I am pretty sure the Martin Logans I tried before came from heavy smokers and were just not that well taken care of, luckily they let me return them.  I have heard about washing them but hope mine never come to that. I cover them when not in use and have them in a constantly  air-filtered basement with no light.  

  Those are some nice Apogees, I always seem to forget about that brand.  Those are also some really nice B&W's, I have heard those and a few other high end ones, they do sound really nice but I'm afraid they are out of my budget. 

  This guy did a really expensive DIY of those B&W speakers. 

 

[straylight 384]

3 hours ago, Ratamahatta said:

This guy did a really expensive DIY of those B&W speakers. 

 

I'm sure your ML's are going to be safe and secure under their covers at night!

 

Regarding that custom aluminum-water-jet-cut-one-off speaker project...OMG!...this brings a whole new level of audio insanity to our party!  With Focal drivers and Morel tweeters this may look like a B&W from the outside but I think that's about as far as the similarities go. Looks like a custom crossover too. The carbon fiber stretched over custom carved wood midrange enclosure and solid billet machined tweeter are the cherry on top. I think the price of the aluminum scrap alone would pay for a pair of my 800D's. 

 

Must be nice to have the software and jet lathe lying around to do such projects. Maybe this guy builds satellites during the day?

 

Thanks so much for sharing...I never would have believed it if I hadn't seen it...WOW! ...and the cost of all the Audio Research electronics to power those speakers could probably buy a small cottage on a lake somewhere. Nice.

 

Edited March 1 by straylight

[Ratamahatta 386]

The guy must own a machine or fabrication shop. I have worked in that line of work for 30 years. The CNC time alone would kill somebody if they had to pay it.

[straylight 384]

On 11/6/2022 at 3:35 PM, Ratamahatta said:

great thing about DIY is that you can get really high quality for not a lot of money. The bad thing is not to many people will appreciate it and you loose a ton on resale if you can sell it at all.

 

I think part of what you said is true of the B&W look-alike build, he won't ever recoup the CNC manhours or metal costs on this, but the pride of building it must be off the charts.  He didn't save any money on building it either...he didn't have to do it all in metal...but clearly it was a cost is no object obsession.  

 

At one point Krell made an all aluminum speaker cabinet but it was tiny compared to these.

 

Edited March 1 by straylight

[4krow 4,398]

 This DIY stuff is such a tightrope for me to navigate. Just as mentioned, you can put all that you desire into a project, and you had better enjoy it because should you want to sell that to most people, the well runs dry. I have a stack of cool stuff, but selling most of it is not an option. Just can't put a fair price on it.