Retriever 1,075 Posted April 16, 2013 Share Posted April 16, 2013 Ever since I built my trussed house back in 1991 I have never been able to listen to Lp's with any volume. I have 2 old turntables that work Technics, and a Pioneer. Both use B&O MMC3 cartridges. I have to record records on my old Nakamichi CR4 Cassete deck. Then I'm able to listen at higher levels. This also helps preserve my collection. Gee does that really date me.. What kind of isolation devices are availible? I've also tried long patch cords to get the turntable out of the room, but I find this rolls off the higher frequencies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveFord 1,059 Posted April 16, 2013 Share Posted April 16, 2013 Are you getting feedback? You can try shelf mounting or a maple butcher block that "floats" on sand. I use platforms made out of some sort of wood with sorbothane risers sandwiched inbetween them. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maddmaster 957 Posted April 16, 2013 Share Posted April 16, 2013 I don't listen to mine. They are boxed and tucked away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zumbini 6,135 Posted April 16, 2013 Share Posted April 16, 2013 I've never had any issues with my Technics SL-1200 MK1 but it's an old beast that weighs almost 30 pounds. Due to speaker proximity I set the tracking force to the high end of the B&O MMC20EN's range (~1.6 grams). 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zumbini 6,135 Posted April 16, 2013 Share Posted April 16, 2013 If necessary a heavy slab of dense material like granite or marble makes a great base for a turntable. Here's an example of a turntable base built by one of our members. (He built the acrylic leveler too.) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snow 207 Posted April 16, 2013 Share Posted April 16, 2013 I would think not certain because I have never tried this but if one was to build a box fill it with sand and plop your TT down in it that it may very well absorb a lot of unwanted vibrations because of the density of the sand. REGARDS SNOW 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BarryG 2,846 Posted April 16, 2013 Share Posted April 16, 2013 I use a slab of marble under mine and it works well for my music hall TT. I think my turntable has layers of sorbothane or other damping material to isolate the platter, also my motor is not mounted on the turntable. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retriever 1,075 Posted April 16, 2013 Author Share Posted April 16, 2013 Lots of good ideas, I'll start construction tonight! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BADBURD 1 Posted April 16, 2013 Share Posted April 16, 2013 I think I have tried about everything. The higher output cartridges definitely make it more sensitive. The only way I have ever been able to eliminate the problem is by suspending the TT from the ceiling. I have used black chains and cables. 1/16 cable looks real nice. I have it supporting a piece of 3/4 granite. My TT is a Pioneer PL7L running a Ortofon Cadenza Red. My speakers are 3 feet away from the unit and I have zero issues. I can crank it up and it hits nice and hard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retriever 1,075 Posted April 16, 2013 Author Share Posted April 16, 2013 Ok but my ceiling is 22 ft high might not be practical! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zumbini 6,135 Posted April 16, 2013 Share Posted April 16, 2013 Exactly what volume-related problem(s) are you experiencing? (i.e. rumble, feedback, skipping, acoustic coupling, etc.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retriever 1,075 Posted April 16, 2013 Author Share Posted April 16, 2013 Lots of rumble even with the C1 filter engaged. I think it has something to do with the open floor plan, distance in the room is 33 feet. Which puts the wavelength in the 34 hz area.. Lots of flutter in the woofers. Both turntables behave exactly the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zumbini 6,135 Posted April 16, 2013 Share Posted April 16, 2013 What does your turntable sit on now? (A photo would help. ) What is your effective tracking force? What happens to the rumble when you increase the tracking force 1/4 gram? 1/2 gram? Try placing a few large books or a stack of newspapers on top of the dust cover. Does that make the rumble better or worse? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retriever 1,075 Posted April 16, 2013 Author Share Posted April 16, 2013 The turntable sets on a solid oak table, tracking force is 1.2 grams, I won't be able to supply a picture until I get home ( at work ). I'll try weighting the dust cover with books tonight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zumbini 6,135 Posted April 16, 2013 Share Posted April 16, 2013 Your B&O MMC3 cartridge is the "grandson" (3rd generation) of my B&O MMC20EN. The suggested 1.2 gram tracking force is actually a MINIMUM. I run mine at ~1.5 grams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveFord 1,059 Posted April 16, 2013 Share Posted April 16, 2013 I just thought of something: how light are your turntables? A lot of people will pack the underside of the plinth with PlastiClay to give them some heft. My Well Tempereds weight a ton so there's no problem with vibration or placement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YardCrap 60 Posted April 18, 2013 Share Posted April 18, 2013 I am lucky in that my audio rack sits on a concrete floor. Otherwise I would surely look into the wall mount. It all means little, but the "little" is what we are looking for. I think "vintage" players give "vintage" sound. That is sound from the days of a girl and a drive in movie. If you no longer have the girl, time to upgrade your gear. I also have all my crap on rubber lined shelves and my TT mounted on Sorbothane as this is just a hobby. I have a 4"inch Maple block under it, but let's be honest, Maple, granite and etc are for "show" which I think is important. Here is a post I just put up at YardCrap which tells how I feel about record play: http://yardcraphome.com/showthread.php?1190-PHONO-CARTRIDGE-THREAD&p=10980&viewfull=1#post10980 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retriever 1,075 Posted April 18, 2013 Author Share Posted April 18, 2013 I'm not a total old fart, I also use DVDs with a Beringer USB device isolated and rip with LAME using insane preset 320kbs. It's just nice to pull out my old classics on vinly once on a while. Started constructing my dampening box for my turntable. I needed ideas of how to approach it, all the knowledgable people on this site gave me direction. Thank you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Papajoe 220 Posted April 19, 2013 Share Posted April 19, 2013 Retriever- I can think of a few simple questions to ask about the turntable itself. Is the turntable level? Measured with a sensitive level on the platter itself? Have you actually measured the tracking force? Not relying on the numbers on the weight? Have you recently reseated the cartridge to be sure that it is tracking correctly? Some people think that once it is set, it is always correctly attached. Not so. Has the turntable been stored for a long time of non use. The sensitive bearings in the pivot can 'settle' after a long unused period. Papajoe 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveFord 1,059 Posted April 19, 2013 Share Posted April 19, 2013 Rumble is bearings - when is the last time all of the bearings and pivots have been lubed? That's why I own Well Tempereds - everything floats in goo and the motor is isolated from the plinth so there is no rumble driving me crazy(er)... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retriever 1,075 Posted April 19, 2013 Author Share Posted April 19, 2013 I'm currently building a box to isolate the turntable. I work at a balance and vibration company, borrowed some equipment. I have a lot of bounce in my floor FFT graph shows low frequency resonance in the 40 to 30 hz region. Big bumps when someone walks in the room! As the house is trussed and no poles in the basement, covering a 48 x 25 area and an open floor plan, it acts like a trampoline. So I'm adding stiffening braces in the basement by the entertainment center. All goes well I should be solved this weekend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Papajoe 220 Posted April 19, 2013 Share Posted April 19, 2013 If the isolation and stiffening elements don't completely do the job, you could cut a hole in the floor and build a concrete plinth up from piers anchored a few feet below the basement floor. Papajoe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retriever 1,075 Posted April 19, 2013 Author Share Posted April 19, 2013 I wasn't planning on doing something that drastic!! However I was planning on picking up a basement pole at Home Depot or Lowes to put in the basement under the entertainment center. You should see the bumps in the freq plot when someone walks. I'm surprised the tone arm doesn't jump across the record! If I can figure out how to downsize the plots while maintaining readability I'd post them.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retriever 1,075 Posted April 19, 2013 Author Share Posted April 19, 2013 Opps resonance is in the 65 hz region! Lower freq is footstep. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retriever 1,075 Posted April 21, 2013 Author Share Posted April 21, 2013 All good added stiffening brace, way better just about done with box but need to give back a rest! Surgury 3 months ago 16 ft cross brace was a bit of a workout! Turntable is in cabinet working fine! Also increased tracking force to 1.5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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