always wanted to hear a pair of these.

[donberry 44]

I am pretty satisfied with my system(s) but I occasionally peruse craigslist to see if anything interests me. Nothing in Tennessee so bored, I check out cape Coral Fl where my brother lives.
Long story real short, I ended up picking up a pair of dahlquist DQ-12 for $200. real nice guy , he sent me a bunch of close-up pics since my brother probably wouldn't even know they were speakers.
Seem to be in great shape. Only thing I could see was they have been re-foamed and whoever did it got a little carried away with the adhesive on one of the woofers - shouldn't affect the sq though.

\I always wanted to hear a pair of these. From what I gather, they crave power to sound their best so good thing I sort of collect power amps. So now all I need to do is drive the 740 miles to pick them up.
I've been wanting to go down there anyway. My brother is a BIG time angler and I usually bring home 50 lbs or so of grouper - would be more but there is a 2 per day limit and the smaller ones taste better.
So I am thinking if I only have a day, maybe some grouper and catch a 8-10' shark , then drive home with the speakers. Last time down I got a 10' Lemon shark and I seriously felt like jello when I got him to the boat. I had to quit fishing for about 30 minutes while my muscles settled down.

This is the one speaker that has a tad too much adhesive on the woofer. Was easier to see on a close-up pic he sent me

 

[Jim Coash 126]

I sold quite a few Dahlquist speakers beginning with DQ-10s in the 70s.  I did hear and liked most of the later models including these DQ-12s you just bought.  They remain relatively close to Jon Dahlquist philosophy.  He used a woofer and box assembly from the Larger Advent for bass, added 5 high/mid drivers in a time aligned configuration and fitted a nice curved cloth covered mesh grill with walnut side panels to create the original DQ-10.  It was a breakthrough.  Soon you could buy a kit with Mylar caps and the instructions to make them mirror imaged which I did to several pair with noticeable effect.  Still, the last pair I upgraded in the early 90s was a pair I took on trade.  After finishing the upgrades my colleagues and I spent some time comparing.  After more than 20 years, they were clearly beyond their sell date.  The later models, like those you bought, used vastly superior driver elements, pretty decent crossovers and a well designed, fairly well constructed package.  Certainly they were better than 2/3rds of the run of the mill box store speakers.  The last ones I sold were a few years newer than yours. Made in the early 2000s they still were somewhat faithful to the Dahlquist ideals although I doubt he contributed anything to them but his name and patents.  I was working for a trade company and we bought about a dozen pair, three different models and sold every one to people who enjoyed them.  The pair I brought home to audition were good, but no match for my KEFs.  Jim

[jwilson55 27]

It would be worth the trip to spend time with your brother fishing. And bringing home grouper? It's a no brainer. Then, for the icing on the cake, a new (at least to you) pair of speakers. Sounds like a an outstanding road trip to me!

[PMAT 2,038]

Nice score!!! I bet they sound great. Please post more good pics and include the fish. You see my avatar so I luuuuv the fishies. It is great to pick up speakers like that where you can take them apart and modify or fix them. None of the worries of damaging precious new ones. ride them hard and have some fun.

Peace.

[donberry 44]

my brother has been getting on me about coming down as I have not been there in 2 years - when I caught that 10' lemon shark, so a kill 2 birds with one stone trip. While I LOVE to eat grouper, to be honest, I get bored catching them. With him it is like bluegill fishing - drop my line to the bottom, about 30', raise it up just a tad, if I don't have a fish in about 2 minutes , reel it up and put on new bait.
If I hook them, they really don't run. they head for the bottom so you are basically always pulling "up" and reeling. Sure it's fun catching the 1st dozen, but then, at least for me, it gets boring.
I like to catch the fish that run. We do the shark fishing where we catch the grouper which is about 23 miles off shore. 1st time I told him I wanted to catch a BIG shark we had 3 hard hits within 30 minutes of being there, while we were catching the grouper.
Language is a little coarse as I was straining pretty good - but would never admit it to my brother as we are very competitive. At the end they were just looking at it and all I wanted was that fish off the line because my entire body felt like jello - I am really, really out of shape.

 

I have not done much research yet but I believe there are speaker upgrades for these - replacing the woofer and mids if I am not mistaken plus the xo upgrades of course.
I would guess that they will be well worth the $200  having never heard a pair, I believe their claim to fame is a BIG sound stage so I am thinking front speakers for a surround system - or rears.

I have a Proceed AVP preamp and plan on turning my garage into an audio / home theater room. With the Proceed I can hook up 5 different amps so 2 amps for my ML SL3 and then maybe 2 amps for the DQ-12 and an amp for whatever center channel I use.

Is sort of why I collect amps and am not in a huge hurry to fix the m-500t I just messed up. I have BIG plans for my carver amps lol

 

[fill35U 1,846]

Don, that's a great strategy for shopping on CL: peruse the listings in regions where friends and relatives live! 

 

Those DQ-12's look rather somber in your pic- like a widow at a funeral !  Apparently, Dahlquist's speakers of that era were designed by Carl Machcisotto, who is currently with NOLA/Accent. From nolaspeakers.com:

 

 

 

INTERCONNECT^TM
Vol. 1
(Other volumes: 2  )

 

Interconnect^TM is a forum for the opinions of Carl Marchisotto and will mostly consider the use of NOLA speakers and related matters. Hopefully it will encourage further thought.

 

But first I would like to shed some light on Carl Marchisotto, for those unfamiliar with me. I was brought up in a musical family. My father played piano and violin. I studied piano for 12 years. My mother used to drag me to the original Met to see Franco Corelli! 

I was amazed at the musical talent I was exposed to. The sound of live music became part of my soul where it remains to this day.

I attended all the NY hi fi shows while in high school. I built my first loudspeaker in 1956.

After working part time selling records I finally was able to afford one Stentorian 12" coax. This driver had a massive zamak cast zinc frame and a giant 11 lb. Alcomax III Magnet system! I then saved enough for a second Stentorian. My father and I built two massive 12 cubic foot bass reflex cabinets for the speakers. I was very happy with the sound most of the time, driven by a Pilot SA260 stereo amp. However, an occasional hardness in the sound I attributed to the horn tweeters, which were crossed over at 3000 Hz. I decided to replace them with two Wharfdale Super 3 cone tweeters per side crossed over at 1000Hz. My first crossover was one capacitor and one inductor! I was now very happy with the sound and this system served me well for many years.

Then I met Marilyn - the love of my life. We decided to get married, we moved into an apartment, but the Stentorian 12 cubic foot cabinets did not move with us. So I needed a much smaller system. I chose AR3A speakers driven by Marantz solid state electronics.

I have had the privilege of experiencing many of those "audio defining moments" in my life. I would like to share a few:

It was about 1973, I walked into a room at the NY HI FI show labeled THE SAUL MARANTZ COMPANY. Inside I saw Saul and another much younger man. I was told his name was Jon Dahlquist. They were playing a speaker, which had the shape of the Quad 57 yet it was a dynamic speaker! There was a big sign that stated: "This is not an Electrostatic Loudspeaker." They were playing a tape of a live recording of a marching band through a Tandberg 64X. The sound was so "live" I could not believe my ears. I decided there and then that this guy Jon Dahlquist must know more about speakers than anyone else.

About 1976 I grew tired of my musical instrument electronics business designing electronic units for Gibson Guitars. I wanted to get into hi fi. I designed and built a super quality phono stage known as the Alltest phono stage. It measured great with distortion about .0005%. I then ran into a guy who worked for the new Dahlquist company. He invited me over to his home as he wanted to hear this new phono preamp. At his home I ran into another pair of these special speakers now named DQ10. He played a record through my Alltest phono preamp. It sounded OK - very clean. He then played the same record through his preamp, a Fisher 400CX tube unit. I could not believe I was listening to the same record! The Fisher was brimming with life while my Alltest was dead! I hated my preamp because it killed the music. This began my love affair with the vacuum tube, which burns brightly to this day.

In 1976 I got a job with the Dahlquist Company. I was hired as chief engineer. Jon wanted to diversify into electronics. It became known that this great speaker (DQ10) had limited bass. I was asked to design an electronic crossover for the new in-development Dahlquist subwoofer.

Now I came up with a concept- a passive hi frequency section combined with an active low frequency section. This would allow the high frequency signal to avoid degradation by active electronics, which was very audible through the very revealing DQ10s. Now the real thrilling part of the project was that I was to work directly with Jon's partner - the great Saul Marantz. Saul was a graphic designer by training. He would design the look and I would design the electronics. It was a great collaboration. The resulting product was named the LP1 Variable Low Pass Filter.

At Dahlquist, I was allowed to experience many great sounds and projects. There was the Quad II amps- one of my all time favorites. We made it even better by replacing the power supply 'lytics with mylar film caps!

I also got involved in speaker design. I was responsible for the Mylar cap kits and the mirror image mods for the DQ10. By that time, I designed all of the company's products. This included the DQ12, DQ8 and the DQ20 and DQ20i, among many others. The great Sid Smith (of Marantz fame) was now working for me as well. He was working on his amplifier project. I was the "ears" that had to evaluate it. I had great fun with Sid and learned a lot from him. I also was able to teach him a lot about listening. He would say to me "Carl I do not understand. When we had a tube amp that sounded bad at Marantz-there was always an obvious problem with a part not working. But with this new amp I cannot find anything wrong-yet it sounds bad." "Sid," I said," welcome to the world of solid state!"

Then there was the time I got to visit the great Harry Pearson. He had put together a system from several parts- the ribbon top section from the Infinity QRS and the Magnapan 1D bass panels. He wanted to use my LP1 to cross the Magnepans to the QRS panels. I helped him do this. He called the resultant speaker the QRS/1D. This was the first loudspeaker to generate a complete sound stage! This also was the first speaker in my experience to reproduce "image height". Very scary! Harry was breaking new ground in describing reproduced sound.

Toward the late 1980's Jon had a severe car accident. His family sold the business and in 1990 Marilyn and I went on to start Acarian Systems (ALON).

In 2004, we left Acarian to start Accent Speaker (NOLA), where we are today.

Sometimes I think that the point of the high-end industry and its original goals have been forgotten. With NOLA Loudspeakers, we are trying to recreate a listening experience as close to the "live one" as is possible. NOLA speakers are different. They look different and they sound different from other loudspeakers. However, they do not sound different from the sound of "live" music. I think that is the point.

I was recently at a dealer demonstrating the Viper Reference II. I chose a "live recording" of Shirley Horn in a small jazz club. I figured this type of program would best illuminate the difference between the Viper Reference II and its competition. The competition was a highly regarded floor standing forward-firing box speaker in the same price range. This speaker has a beautiful design and a world class finish. Its sound was very high quality and smooth. While this speaker has many attributes, it just could not make a live recording sound live. After playing the same Shirley Horn CD on both speakers, I asked the dealer what he thought. He said, "With the Vipers the sound was very much like what you would expect to hear live at a small jazz club. The other speaker," he said, "has a completely different sound."

I thought to myself, the competing speakers have two different sounds? That's it?

I said to him, "but the recording is one of a live performance!" I showed him the cover of the CD. I felt like asking him, "Is this your final answer?"

Now, if we were testing two cameras with an outdoor shot, and one camera gave a picture that looked "indoors", could both be correct? Not likely.

Anyway, here are some questions for thought:

Assuming we are trying to reproduce the sound of "live" voices and instruments:

What instrument radiates sound only towards the front?What human voice radiates sound only towards the front?What natural sound radiates only to the front?What natural sound changes a great deal as you move your head a couple of inches?

The answer to the above 4 questions is of course NONE.

Regarding the important directional characteristics of instruments and voices (from Harry F. Olson's Music, Physics and Engineering):

In the midrange @ 1000 HZ - the amount of sound radiation to rear compared to the front:
Piano: -10 dB
Violin: -8 dB
Bass Drum: 0dB
French Horn: -15dB
Human voice: - 10dB

So we can see that 'live' sources produce mild reductions in rear radiated sound of 10-15 dB compared to the frontal sound radiation.

Regarding possible mid range speaker designs and resulting radiation patterns:

Omnidirectional: provides equal sound pressure in all directions and therefore cannot accurately reproduce how most "live sources" radiate sound into a room. Except for a couple of examples like maybe the triangle and the elevator bell - this pattern is not accurate.

Mono-pole: or front firing (typical box speaker). This is how most speakers are built. This also cannot reproduce reality as NO sound is radiated to the rear and there is no relation to the real world of "live sound".

Dipole: This design radiates front and rear-from the same diaphragm. So front and rear radiation is time coherent-but out of phase. It automatically cancels sounds to the sides and to the floor and ceiling-so it involves less of your room sound in the playback. With its 4.8 dB reduction in room power response, this provides the best match to the characteristics of the "live source" mid range room response and is why we use this in the best NOLA speakers. Examples- open baffle dynamic mounting of drivers, planar dipole designs.

Notice regarding the above - the wrong speaker radiation pattern cannot be fixed by any or all of the following:

 

1. Making the enclosure very heavy.
2. Making the enclosure out of plastic.
3. Making the enclosure out of metal.
4. Bolting the drivers to the baffle-really tight.
5. Special Voodoo crossovers.
6. Complicated mechanically adjustable enclosures.
7. Use of Teflon© capacitors.
8. Using many drivers in a mono-pole line array.
9. Computer aided room correction.
10. Beveling all sides of an enclosure.
11. Using diamond, beryllium or ceramic diaphragms.

--- to be continued ---

© Carl Marchisotto August 2009
Cannot be reprinted without written permission

[donberry 44]

that would be the guy . I had always wanted to hear and try the Dahlquist and also the Alon, which he designed also.

Oh to be that smart

[donberry 44]

ran across this video of the last time I went fishing with my brother. Excuse the language, bit foul in places. I had to quit fishing for about a half hour after "landing" this one. I am really out of shape and my muscles felt like jello. You can skip ahead to around 2:18 to actually see it.

[donberry 44]

picked up the speakers and they were in very good condition. Had the expected amount of dust on them so I removed the cage and grill cover and hosed those down, then dusted off everything else. Look really good with the only real cosmetic issue is it looks as though a previous owner had a cat and there are a few claw like marks on the cloth, not bad at all tho, especially for their age.

Hooked them up 1st thing when I got home. Sound okay, not great, but I think it is more an equipment issue at the moment then a speaker issue, except for one thing.

The one thing is I was surprised at how bright they were. I am using my Conrad Johnson PV2AR and it is not a bright preamp.
I just used some gear I had set up in my family room and I think they need more power to sound their best (am hoping so anyway).
1st use gear is a Kenwood KA-8100 used as a power amp, Conrad Johnson PV2AR for the preamp and I hooked up my PS Audio Digital Link III dac, using the laptop for my source which is why I brought out the dac.

Speaker placement - this is also an issue and undoubtedly keeping them from sounding as good as they should but in order to use them in this room I don't have many choices as far as placement.

First listen was with a very familiar album so I could get a decent comparison - Fleetwood Mac 25 Years The Chain reissue. One thing you have to love about Fleetwood Mac is they always release albums that have excellent sound engineering and that is why I usually start with this.
I started at a moderate volume and the mids and highs were very nice but lacking a tad in the bass. So before I went any further I scurried down to my room and brought out a MartinLogan Abyss sub and hooked it up. Biggest "problem" here is I didn't do anything as far as setup except plug it in and adjust the settings a tad. My ear isn't that great and I really need to use a mic etc to set it up right, but I just wanted to hear the speakers.

Music back on at moderate volume, sounded pretty good with very good uimaging considering the cruddy speaker placement, but they did sound a bit bright even at moderate volumes.
I started "The Chain" and cranked it up and it got really "congested" during the parts of the song when everyone was jamming.
I switched gears and put on some Van Morrison Astra Weeks in the 192kHz/24bit  version from HDTracks because Van the man gets a little "shreeky" in parts and I wanted to hear just how bright these were. They were pretty bright, but they did sound good - they also got "congested" again.
I use the word congested when everyone is jamming and I have a hard time picking out the individual instruments.
If I am listening to one of my garage systems, my deck or outside systems and normally my car system (the one in my jag is pretty darn good tho), that is pretty much to be expected, but it obviously isn't why I have wanted to listen to a pair of these for quite some time.

They are sounding really good on acoustic stuff like cat Stevens, some Ryan Adams etc, but not so much on the songs where everyone starts jamming.
BUT - at the moment, I am not passing judgment on the speakers whatsoever as I am pretty sure I know what one problem could be and there is a good chance it could also be another.

1. - using the Kenwood KA-8100 as the power amp. Now I was surprised at the brightness of the speakers as this hasn't been a bright amp for me, but from everything I have ever read about the Dahlquist, they really need some power to sound like they are supposed to. I have read some say the DQ-12 don't need as much, but I knew when I hooked them up to that amp that it probably wasn't going to have the juice to do them justice. I think it is a pretty safe bet that the congested problem is the amp not having enough power.
I need to get them hooked up to one of my big boy amps and I have a pretty good feeling that the congested problem is going to go away. Not so sure about the brightness of them though. From my limited experience, an underpowered amp will pretty much do what the Kenwood is doing now on these, but the tone normally doesn't change that much (except for the tone of the amp, even tho an amp is not supposed to have a sound - they all sure seem to to me)

So, for that, I am thinking I need to scrounge around and find some schematics or open these up and see what is going on inside cap wise and perform a cap-errectomy (needs recapped). I will be looking around for the schematics because no matter what, I am going to throw some not cheap but not uber expensive caps in them,m but I am thinking, and could very well be wrong as I often am, they also might just need some hours put on them as who knows how long they have been sitting around not being used. As I did not pick them up, I have no idea if they have been used or sitting in a garage for years. If they have been sitting unused for a long time, that could also account for the congestion, but even so I know they need more power then the KA-8100 is giving them.
So, as with pretty much all of my purchases lately, the jury is still out and I am going to hold off on any type of judgment until I get them on a more powerful amp and put some hours on them,

So basically, this is a really, really long non-review.