OldiesButGoodies 5 Posted July 22, 2015 Posted July 22, 2015 I have been using my Carver Amazing Plats with an active crossover for years. For shits and giggles I would like to reinstall the original passives and try them out that way again. I am having trouble remembering how the four 16 ohm woofs were wired. Did they go all in paralell to present a 4 ohm load to the passive x-over? Are the woofers supposed to be in phase with crossover in this design? Any help appreciated! Thanks! OBG
LVMAN777 358 Posted July 22, 2015 Posted July 22, 2015 IIRC they are 4 16 ohm woofers....wired in parallel in the plats My "Originals" are 4 ohm woofers ....wired series/ parallel 12" Carver Amazing Loudspeaker Paper Cone Woofer Driver 12" 20 oz 16 ohm paper cone with foam surround suspension, 180 watts, 1" Voice Coil woofer. 20 oz Stacked Magnet to provide long voice coil excursion Super light weight paper cone with wide roll surround Hi-Q performance 1" long excursion aluminum voice coil, 16 ohm impedance 90W rms power handling Carver Amazing Loudspeaker OEM replacement woofer ref: 618-00002-00(early Silver CT, 10-5/8" cutout) / 618-003 00 K22TNB(Silver T, 10½" cutout) Wire 4 drivers in parallel to obtain 4 ohm system load Specifications- Power capacity: 90W/180W RMS/peak Frequency response: 20 ~ 3,000 Hz Nominal impedance: 16 Ω Voice coil diameter: 1" Magnet weight: 20 oz. Sensitivity: 88 dB W/M Fs: n/a Hz Re: n/a Ω Qms: n/a http://www.dynavox.com/12inch-Carver-Amazing-Loudspeaker-Paper-Cone-Woofer-Driver
LVMAN777 358 Posted July 22, 2015 Posted July 22, 2015 "...Amazing Loudspeaker Platinum Edition The first Platinum Edition was produced from 1989 to 1991. It was actually introduced shortly after the Silver Edition, but probably only to ensure that all of the originals (that it replaced) had been sold. It was the same size as the original, and was available in either natural oiled oak or ebony lacquer finish. The two 30-inch ribbons were replaced by a single 60-inch ribbon driver, and the flat woofers were replaced by 12-inch paper cone drivers. The crossover frequency was 120 Hz. This version featured (linkable) dual speaker binding posts suitable for bi-wiring or passive bi-amping. Frequency response – 23 Hz to 40 KHz Impedance – 8.0 ohms Sensitivity – 89dB The paper cone woofers were each 16 ohms, all wired in parallel, yielding 4 ohms impedance..." Amazing Loudspeaker Platinum Mark IV The Platinum Mark IV was produced from 1991 to 1993. It was originally available in natural oiled oak or ebony lacquer finish (at a higher price), but the ebony finish appears to have been discontinued before 1993. The drivers were the same as in the previous Platinum Edition. The primary differences were the addition of three adjustment controls on the rear panel and the change to a single set of binding posts. The primary specifications were identical to those of the previous Platinum Edition..." from "Harryfan" post 5 years ago , see CARVER site! » The Chain » Loudspeakers » Carver speakers » Carver ALS [AmazingLoudSpeakers]
OldiesButGoodies 5 Posted July 26, 2015 Author Posted July 26, 2015 Thanks. I put the passive crossovers back in after replacing a 150uf non-polar cap that measuring poorly. While the passive is vastly less efficient than the active, the sound I am getting out of the ribbons feels cleaner, less compressed. So there is some magic in passive x-over design, in my opinion, that makes the speakers (and the ECS). Will continue experimenting.
BarryG 2,859 Posted July 26, 2015 Posted July 26, 2015 I replaced the 150uF electrolytic with a solen with good results, I think I got the idea from BillD. I hope it works good for you! BarryG
OldiesButGoodies 5 Posted July 26, 2015 Author Posted July 26, 2015 That could be a next step. I could not find an exact 150 uf cap but Tom (OCCD) had two Panasonic 330uf 220V polars that, wired in series minus to minus, measured 149uf on the Sencore (and became non-polar as a result of wiring), so took 4 of those and went with that. Sounds pretty good. Next step is to decide if I need more power. I have heard the passive crossover can handle up to 1000 watts before the chokes start melting - I am feeding it somewhere around 600 from a Sunfire 400 x 5 (at 6 ohms - assuming the crossover presents that load). The volumes I get are pretty decent with the pre at 90% - so I may not need more. But I have a temptation to try an Emotiva XPR-2 and see if I can get those chokes to warm up the room. ;-P OBG
BarryG 2,859 Posted July 26, 2015 Posted July 26, 2015 I know this is off topic, how is Tom doing? I have not had any update recently! BarryG
OldiesButGoodies 5 Posted July 26, 2015 Author Posted July 26, 2015 I know this is off topic, how is Tom doing? I have not had any update recently! BarryG Not off topic - any time I discuss Carver equipment Tom is automatically on-topic :-). He is doing great, IMO. He may not see it that way, but that is my take. he is walking and able to work a little bit to put food on the table. The new house is still halfway done but coming out nicely if slowly. His joint pain is there as always but manageable (I hope I did not break any HIPPA rules just now!). He is fine. Of course, things will be back to normal when fixed equipment starts coming out of the shop. Thanks for asking... OBG
OldiesButGoodies 5 Posted July 26, 2015 Author Posted July 26, 2015 Which pre are you running? I am using an Emotiva XSP-1 gen 2.
PMAT 2,061 Posted July 26, 2015 Posted July 26, 2015 Never had a sunfire but that thing should rock those plats. Do you have enough preamp gain?
OldiesButGoodies 5 Posted July 26, 2015 Author Posted July 26, 2015 The Sunfire series are amazing amps - I find them comparable to much higher end amps. Mine was recapped and re-biased by Tom (these amps came with tens of Pacom capacitors that went bad quickly - an easy upgrade is to have them removed and replaced with Panasonics, I had Tomdo it because there are so many and full recapping does require recalibration). Unfortunately Tom also decorated the interior of my amp with about 60 Hello Kitty stickers that I will have to tediously remove if I ever have to sell it. The bastard put a really low light on the joules meter so that he knew I would be tempted to open the amp up when I got home from the shop and discover the stickers. I am still planning a proper revenge on him for that little joke. HEY: The preamp gain is fine - I MIS-WROTE on my first post - I am getting decent volume on my pre at around -1db, and it goes all the way to +12dbs (I have not had this pre for too long), so I have plenty of runway left to increase the output on the Amazings without swapping the power amp. The Sunfire will do fine as a match to them. Thanks, OBG 1
LVMAN777 358 Posted July 27, 2015 Posted July 27, 2015 I'm running a Sunfire 300x2 into Original/Upgraded Amazing Loudspeakers... Got the eq/crossovers and cables to bi-amp them.... Need another Sunfire 300x2... "Some CARVER/SUNFIRE EQUIPMENT and some tasty music.... and i'm fine..."
DoctorLipp 28 Posted May 31, 2016 Posted May 31, 2016 I have been using my Carver Amazing Plats with an active crossover for years. For 5hi7s and giggles I would like to reinstall the original passives and try them out that way again. I am having trouble remembering how the four 16 ohm woofs were wired. Did they go all in paralell to present a 4 ohm load to the passive x-over? Are the woofers supposed to be in phase with crossover in this design? Any help appreciated! Thanks! OBG Yes, the four woofers are wired in parallel. On older woofers, the positive terminal has a red ink line next to it - and it's very subtle. Newer woofers have a "+" and "-" imprinted on the terminals. The positive terminal on the cross-over is the point where the capacitor and inductor are connected together. The other side of the inductor should go to the positive input, and the other side of the capacitor should go to ground.
aslan7 955 Posted May 31, 2016 Posted May 31, 2016 Hey DoctorLipp, Welcome to the CarverSite my friend!! What brought you here? Sounds like you have some Carver expertise. Do you own any Carver related equipment?? Again, welcome--and we LUV audio pics :-))))
DoctorLipp 28 Posted June 4, 2016 Posted June 4, 2016 Hey DoctorLipp, Welcome to the CarverSite my friend!! What brought you here? Sounds like you have some Carver expertise. Do you own any Carver related equipment?? Again, welcome--and we LUV audio pics :-)))) Thanx for the welcome. I'm more of a DIY speaker builder (25+ years doing that) than a Carver fan. I am in process of rebuilding a Carver Amazing. So I had woofers (original, and replacements) and cross-overs sitting right in front of me when I wrote the response. I'll be starting a separate thread for this rebuild project. 1
DoctorLipp 28 Posted July 10, 2016 Posted July 10, 2016 I have been using my Carver Amazing Plats with an active crossover for years. For 5hi7s and giggles I would like to reinstall the original passives and try them out that way again. I am having trouble remembering how the four 16 ohm woofs were wired. Did they go all in paralell to present a 4 ohm load to the passive x-over? Are the woofers supposed to be in phase with crossover in this design? Any help appreciated! Thanks! OBG Yes, the four woofers are wired in parallel. On older woofers, the positive terminal has a red ink line next to it - and it's very subtle. Newer woofers have a "+" and "-" imprinted on the terminals. The positive terminal on the cross-over is the point where the capacitor and inductor are connected together. The other side of the inductor should go to the positive input, and the other side of the capacitor should go to ground. I need to correct my post here after rebuilding my right Plat. The positive (red) wire from the inductor in the woofer crossover actually goes to the negative terminal on the woofers. Thus, the woofers are inverted in polarity. Also, read the service manuals, they also specify the polarity for the woofers, which is different depending on the series. 2
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