Nahash5150

UL certification is not a requirement. Since Bob Carver Corp sells them through 'showrooms' and now recently, directly from the factory, UL cert is entirely optional. Look - UL does a lot of good things, but it's also a shrewd business model. Not much different than NFPA for fire code. Both organizations are full of egg heads that look for ways to stay relevant in order to keep the testing and verification dollars coming in... Neither entity has any legal authority to tell manufacturers what to do or consumers what to buy. They are simply a 'third party' that gives clout to the integrity of a product, and thus, makes the product much easier to sell in a competitive market. It's local governments that determine the legality of manufacture and use. NFPA defers to the 'authority having jurisdiction' as the only, and final say in how a Fire System is installed. If the AHJ says 'follow NFPA 72 blah blah', then that is what you do. If the AHJ doesn't specify, then as a company you follow the NFPA guidelines to cover your ass (if anything happens, you can at least claim you followed the code, even though that code might not have been legally required). Local governments could simply say the same thing about UL - 'all appliances must be UL listed to be used in this building'. Now it's a legal issue. So, does your local government require some kind of certification for the appliances you use in your home? If not, then the UL requirements don't mean anything!

So what's going on?

Clarx & Harddope Castle!

GuitarBrony13 It's Only Rock N Roll

Yes. Here is what I posted: With KT120's Bias set at 100mA... Output Power both channels into 8 ohms: ~60W rms, ~65W at clipping THD at max power both channels driven: ~0.9% Frequency response: 18Hz - 30kHz +/- 0.5dB Single Channel driven into 8 ohms: ~95W Mono into 8 ohms: ~130W at 0.5% THD Dynamic power both channels driven: ~95W

I already did 3 years ago. But that was on the Carverfest kit amps - not a production model. And I don't have a production model, so it's kinda moot now.

Honestly, this forum is not built on shitting on people or products. Of course we're allowed our opinions, and sometimes we have complaints, but I think what defines us is that we are fans of audio and promote good experiences. I'm with AJ. Karma is real. It's one of the reasons we don't piss on people here just for the fun of it.

We can do product 'reviews' and 'measurements' here too. Hell, we can even benchmark their specifications.

It's not a safety issue. It seems whenever people want to leverage their argument, they bring up safety as a means to diffuse opposition (like uhm, the authoritarian coronavirus policies). So all this is about is a 3 prong socket used as a two prong. I'll give them that. It implies it is Earth Grounded, which could be a selling point? I don't know. It's a meaningless concern, in the context of safety. It's really about presentation. But that can be fixed, so time to move on. I wonder, do these safety nazis get their gear inspected every year for a safety compliance? They should, if they really cared about it. Safety regulations change all the time.

Okay fine. Then if the chassis is grounded and you touch a faulty power cord and get exposed to the hot with one hand, and you're grounded with the other hand, you could get fucked. EG is not automatic safety. In many ways it is far more dangerous.

But I'm still at risk. I have been shocked before, and accidents can still happen. Even worse, I've had damaged units catch fire and blow up large cap capacitors. Expert or not - electronics in general are hazardous. My point is, you can't make anything 'safe'. There's always a way to make anything dangerous. If regulators, such as OSHA, ever wanted to shut down companies they could easily do it. That is why there is a reliance on a) the written law, and b) rules and regulations. There is such a thing as acceptable risk, because there is always risk. What it really comes down to is liability. Ultimately, the manufacturer is always liable, no matter what regulation or standard they follow. According to the law, it doesn't matter if an amplifier is UL or CE or compliant in every way to the written law and regulations. If someone is injured or killed using your product, you will be responsible - period. Personal liability is one matter, but business liability is quite another. A business's only real recourse is to have good insurance. Following regulations won't save you, it just decreases your chances of being brought to court by mitigating the chances of an accident ever happening. You cannot call anything that uses line power 'safe'. You cannot legally claim that because line power is by default hazardous usage. So the 'safety' discussion is just a loop without any end.

Okay so I can't walk away for good... QUESTION: Am I at risk for working on electronic equipment? I am required to open up high voltage appliances, and in many cases, test them before I know what is wrong with them. Does this impose significant risk to my life?

I am. I'm tired of it. I have never seen so much babble about a single freaking amplifier ever. The controversy just keeps spinning right back to where we started! Over and over again. @wrf knows as much about it as I do. He may still have the patience for it...but I suspect his won't last much longer either. I still own two. I even used one of them to drive the 900W 4 ohm Tekton MOABS and it performed just fine. Sometimes I wonder just what the hell people are expecting from their amplifiers. It isn't a PA system - it's a little 55W per channel tube amp! I'm not trying to be an ass but my patience has a limit. I talk to people all over the world about audio everyday. In most cases, people enjoy relatively standard set ups - a set of good speakers and a Carver amp or two with a couple of sources and a preamp. But some people want their stuff to sound like a rock concert (which average about 150,000 watts of power). Or, they expect a 40 year old Carver to keep up with a modern class A amp that costs $30,000 (true story). So I don't understand people and never will. But I do understand when I've had enough. And I've had enough of the Carver275 'controversy'. Also - EGing everything is just a CYA nowadays thanks to the rabid (and very unfair) liability with products.

But Steve is selling his now? I'm walking away from this topic. This is blowing up my own neurons...

This EG topic was very heated when we were building the kits. Some people insisted that the EG be connected, even after Bob told them not to. Earth Ground is NOT always safe. Furthermore, almost all audio equipment is NOT Earth Grounded.

If you read the guide to the Member Map, it clearly states the criteria for your profile, and that the member database has to be uploaded to Google Maps manually. So if you or others don't appear, they either a) don't have a valid location entered into their profile, or b) haven't been uploaded to Google yet. It's been a couple years since I have uploaded - and you're the first person to even make mention of the Member Map since then... I need to know what links you're talking about before I can fix them. But there is only one valid Member Map, and that is the one in the link I provided above.

Are you trying to get here?

It was a joke Jim.

Bob has an account here. Just FYI. He may need to be reminded!

This one's for you Jack!

The Wasteland Wailers Dare Master

The Human League FASCINATION