SteveMKentucky 70 Posted July 16, 2015 Posted July 16, 2015 There's an interesting article in the Wall Street Journal today. Geoffrey Fowler tests a group of new speakers and discusses "hi-fi" today: http://www.wsj.com/articles/ditch-your-old-hi-fi-wireless-speakers-make-home-audio-easier-1436900550 2
loner_t 2,568 Posted July 16, 2015 Posted July 16, 2015 There is some inertia due to concern about SQ using WiFi now. WiFi beam-forming is slowly trickling down from commercial to consumer equipment space. If you use WiFi, you are moving the amplification from line level signals to be inside the speakers. It is not much of an advance, because the amplification technology (unless you use Meridian stuff) now has additional space constraints to be crammed inside a speaker enclosure. B&O also has done this. The other challenge is bandwidth and latency. Data streams can be retransmitted but audio requires real-time sync between between multiple speakers. Jitter is introduced in such systems, and new methods to overcome such jitter add to complications. Do you recall ESP in a Sony CD Walkman? It would read-ahead and buffer music streams. Wireless will need the same. From 802.11n (megabits/second) there will be a need for 802.11ac (gigabit/second). This is almost the same speed as HDMI 1.2 (2-4GBps). 4k (HDMI2.0) will not make it using the current technology. Think of VoIP. This is much larger bandwidth over wireless. The technology needs to mature a bit, IMO. It reminds me of some conspiracy theories and having hand in peoples pockets and selling snake oil to The Gullibles. 1
B-Man 4,780 Posted July 16, 2015 Posted July 16, 2015 FWIW - I stream FLAC files from JRiver on my laptop to a Sony Blu-Ray player connected to my C-1 via a DAC, all over 802.11n wireless and I have ZERO issues with noise, skips, latency, etc. It works so well I am continually amazed - my TV, multiple PCs, tablets, etc. all ride on the same wireless network. Now that I think about it, I don't have any devices connected via copper. I realize this isn't the same as streaming to individual speakers, but thought it would be good info to have anyway. I originally thought I would set up a separate, music-only wi-fi network but now I am thinking it isn't needed. Time will tell I guess... 2
SteveMKentucky 70 Posted July 16, 2015 Author Posted July 16, 2015 ...Now that I think about it, I don't have any devices connected via copper. I realize this isn't the same as streaming to individual speakers, but thought it would be good info to have anyway ... But you're still connecting your C-1 with an amp and amp to speakers with copper, right? 1
Hibernator69 47 Posted July 16, 2015 Posted July 16, 2015 My main listening room is similar to your room B-Man. I'm using Jriver to stream to a from my NAS to a dedicated music PC and out to DAC via asynchronous USB. From memory I think that computer is using my 5GHz network and the particular wireless dongle is rated for AC-1200, i.e. just under 900 mbps. Aren't high quality flac streams typically under 1 mpbs? Even if I'm off by an order of magnitude by going from memory you could stream a couple of HD movies and still have plenty of space left over if all you had was that one 5 GHz channel. Even wireless-n will handle this easily if you don't overload the network with continuous HD streaming and file sharing and you aren't trying to transmit through 5 concrete walls. Streaming to individual speakers would involve multiple times the bandwidth to be sure, but I think the timing/jitter issue is way more difficult than bandwidth. Audio only streams are not exactly high bandwidth in comparison to video. 1
loner_t 2,568 Posted July 16, 2015 Posted July 16, 2015 From memory I think that computer is using my 5GHz network and the particular wireless dongle is rated for AC-1200, i.e. just under 900 mbps. Aren't high quality flac streams typically under 1 mpbs? Even if I'm off by an order of magnitude by going from memory you could stream a couple of HD movies and still have plenty of space left over if all you had was that one 5 GHz channel. The AC-1200 will run 802.11ac which is gigabit wireless. If your neighborhood does not have much 802.11ac, you should be streaming very well. 11ac also has beam-forming. Even wireless-n will handle this easily if you don't overload the network with continuous HD streaming and file sharing and you aren't trying to transmit through 5 concrete walls. 5Ghz 802.11n (160+ channels) will work, but has much higher attenuation. 2.4g 802.11n has too few channels (11) compared to 5g. Fewer electronics in 2.4g band (DSS, Phones, Microwaves, Bluetooth) are better as well. Streaming to individual speakers would involve multiple times the bandwidth to be sure, but I think the timing/jitter issue is way more difficult than bandwidth. Audio only streams are not exactly high bandwidth in comparison to video. This is the killer. Video applications run look-ahead and buffer which can be challenge in noisy environments. Good SNR will always provide better quality. My neighborhood is inundated with 5g/2.4g 11n. It is a PITA to get stable streams. I am currently using wired/bridged APs to distribute wifi in different rooms. Streaming devices are all wired via Cat5e in my case. I am envious of you and B-man. 1
loner_t 2,568 Posted July 16, 2015 Posted July 16, 2015 Aren't high quality flac streams typically under 1 mpbs? From SONOS faq What is the recommended internet bandwidth to stream FLAC on Sonos? 5 Mb is the minimum broadband speed required to stream FLAC from Qobuz on Sonos. If streaming different FLAC music to multiple speakers, we recommend a higher broadband speed. This requirement can vary based on your internet usage (large file downloads, gaming, video streaming, etc.). Please visit the Qobuz help page for recommended bandwidths on FLAC. 5.0 Megabits per second - 1 FLAC stream7.5 Megabits per second - 2 FLAC streams10 Megabits per second - 3 or more FLAC streams 2
B-Man 4,780 Posted July 17, 2015 Posted July 17, 2015 ...Now that I think about it, I don't have any devices connected via copper. I realize this isn't the same as streaming to individual speakers, but thought it would be good info to have anyway ... But you're still connecting your C-1 with an amp and amp to speakers with copper, right? Sorry for the confusion - I was referring to my network devices not being connected via copper. {Snip}...My neighborhood is inundated with 5g/2.4g 11n. It is a PITA to get stable streams. I am currently using wired/bridged APs to distribute wifi in different rooms. Streaming devices are all wired via Cat5e in my case. I am envious of you and B-man...{/Snip} I am fortunate in that my street has just 8 houses, is a dead-end and the smallest piece of property a house is sitting on is over an acre. Mine is on 3 acres so there is some distance between us all. When I run a scan for wi-fi, I sometimes pick up my closest neighbor's Linksys router. Their house is over 100 yards away so it is hit or miss if it shows up at all. 1
PDR 1,194 Posted July 17, 2015 Posted July 17, 2015 I view my "Vintage" system the same way I view MILFs...... If you have one, might as well enjoy it........ 4
soulofsound 40 Posted July 17, 2015 Posted July 17, 2015 I wonder if those can keep up with a Carver system ? lol!
loner_t 2,568 Posted July 18, 2015 Posted July 18, 2015 I wonder if those can keep up with a Carver system ? lol! They do need re-capping once in a while (about every 20+ years or so).
4krow 6,583 Posted July 18, 2015 Posted July 18, 2015 I remember a friend of mine telling me that someday we would have all this stuff direct wired into our ears. Now, I'm thinking of just waiting for that instead of buying new gear just yet. 1
mas52indy 82 Posted July 18, 2015 Posted July 18, 2015 For health reasons, we should be finding ways to reduce the amount of EM radiation we are exposed to instead of adding yet more to the already immense sea we are bathed in daily. I know that the FCC claims that Wi-Fi, cell phone transmissions and other forms of EM in the microwave spectrum are safe, but the threshold they are using is strictly for microwave heating and doesn't take into account cell damage from those high frequency waves. Personally, I will stick with wired technology for both my hi-fi and computer networking. At least I have some control over those aspects of the EM field in my home. 2
DSkip 28 Posted July 19, 2015 Posted July 19, 2015 If one wants to step into modern technology AND keep that nostalgic feel/look/sound of their rig, they could consider the iFi Retro/Stereo 50. When I was looking at carrying iFi, this was the product that sold me on them. Its a gorgeous piece that has that vintage look, offers full tube front end and 25 WPC of el84 push pull power, throws the latest gen bluetooth in the mix and has a phono/DXD capable DAC, all in a tiny package. Its not exactly wifi with the bluetooth, but its still a wireless connection per se. I think the actual wifi speaker solutions are good for background music but nothing more. If you simply want to turn your rig into a wifi streaming system, just add an Amazon Fire TV or WD TV and connect it to your DAC.
loner_t 2,568 Posted July 19, 2015 Posted July 19, 2015 Personally, I will stick with wired technology for both my hi-fi and computer networking. At least I have some control over those aspects of the EM field in my home. The only way to control EM is to get rid of electricity. A car has EM, forget WiFi, BT, Microwave. Power lines at 110Kv/440Kv are equally dangerous. 110v/220v home power lines also emit radiation. Fluorescent lights emit radiation, as does CFL. Any copper conductor, even inside a dielectric/insulator will emit radiation. The modern lifestyle is full of EM. OCCD just adds to it.
UncleMeat 1,173 Posted July 19, 2015 Posted July 19, 2015 The modern lifestyle is full of EM. Not to mention the background cosmic radiation; and the EMR that you get when the Sun shines on you...
Ar9Jim 6,512 Posted July 19, 2015 Posted July 19, 2015 For health reasons, we should be finding ways to reduce the amount of EM radiation we are exposed to instead of adding yet more to the already immense sea we are bathed in daily. I know that the FCC claims that Wi-Fi, cell phone transmissions and other forms of EM in the microwave spectrum are safe, but the threshold they are using is strictly for microwave heating and doesn't take into account cell damage from those high frequency waves. Personally, I will stick with wired technology for both my hi-fi and computer networking. At least I have some control over those aspects of the EM field in my home. Good point..There was a guy here thats wife was suffering from increased sensitivity to these radiations..The cell phone standard based on heating of the skull and tissue seems crazy but true..Seems as if it doesn't start to heat up your head (beyond the standard) then its safe right..Only like 50 years ago you could watch above ground nuke test near Vegas..It was also safe right..They probably thought if you were far enough away, that the radiation didn't warm up your body it must be safe. It may have been their highly respected, highly educated, indisputable scientific fact of the day..May sound crazy but someday we might be sleeping in a faraday cage just to give our bodies a temporary break from the exposer..You don't have to think back very far and you can come up with a long list of things that were once considered safe that are now considered dangerous..This will likely be another one of those examples over time..The cell phone standard for heating of the head/skull makes as much sense as above ground nuke testing..If it doesn't start to cook you it must be safe..
mas52indy 82 Posted July 21, 2015 Posted July 21, 2015 Personally, I will stick with wired technology for both my hi-fi and computer networking. At least I have some control over those aspects of the EM field in my home. The only way to control EM is to get rid of electricity. A car has EM, forget WiFi, BT, Microwave. Power lines at 110Kv/440Kv are equally dangerous. 110v/220v home power lines also emit radiation. Fluorescent lights emit radiation, as does CFL. Any copper conductor, even inside a dielectric/insulator will emit radiation. The modern lifestyle is full of EM. OCCD just adds to it. True, whenever you have a current flow, there is a corresponding magnetic field, hence, some sort of EM radiation. However, what we are talking about here is radiation in the microwave spectrum that is much more energetic than what we experience from even high voltage EM emissions. These microwave emissions have been shown to cause significant damage at the cellular level. Sadly, most, if not all, of the government agencies that are supposedly protecting us, are really only protecting the profits of the companies engaging in business in those particular areas, i.e. FCC/Telecom industry, FDA/Big Pharma, USDA/Big Agra, and so forth. My advice: disconnect from wireless/Bluetooth as much as you can. 1
mas52indy 82 Posted July 21, 2015 Posted July 21, 2015 Good point..There was a guy here thats wife was suffering from increased sensitivity to these radiations..The cell phone standard based on heating of the skull and tissue seems crazy but true..Seems as if it doesn't start to heat up your head (beyond the standard) then its safe right..Only like 50 years ago you could watch above ground nuke test near Vegas..It was also safe right..They probably thought if you were far enough away, that the radiation didn't warm up your body it must be safe. It may have been their highly respected, highly educated, indisputable scientific fact of the day..May sound crazy but someday we might be sleeping in a faraday cage just to give our bodies a temporary break from the exposer..You don't have to think back very far and you can come up with a long list of things that were once considered safe that are now considered dangerous..This will likely be another one of those examples over time..The cell phone standard for heating of the head/skull makes as much sense as above ground nuke testing..If it doesn't start to cook you it must be safe.. There are places where you can get shielding for your sleeping area so that your body has an opportunity to heal properly during the sleep/healing cycle. An additional complication to the microwave field is our ingestion of nanoparticles of aluminum which makes our bodies highly conductive and more susceptible to damage when in those fields. Chelation therapy is a good way to clear the body of all those metals that, at the last time I looked, are not part of our minimum daily nutritional requirements.
mas52indy 82 Posted July 21, 2015 Posted July 21, 2015 Not to mention the background cosmic radiation; and the EMR that you get when the Sun shines on you... We are designed to be able to handle that sort of radiation to some degree. The CBR will be present wherever you are. As for sunshine, just step inside once in awhile or put on a thick layer of SPF10000 sunscreen, that should take care of that. Maybe someone should work on inventing a liquid microwave screen that you could lather on. Time for me to go and put on my foil hat
LVMAN777 352 Posted September 3, 2015 Posted September 3, 2015 WINDOWS 10 OS HAS NATIVE FLAC AND MKV SUPPORT "Crank The Music" "Audio lovers will be happy to hear the latest news about Windows 10: the operating system will support lossless audio on phones and tablets.... FLAC files would be available in future preview builds of the software for small devices... The reference to FLAC is the Free Lossless Audio Codec, a file format that retains audio quality but in a smaller size than the pure music stream. FLAC shrinks down an audio file, similar to a ZIP file, but unlike the MP3 format it stores the full, uncompressed audio data. You could, for example, take music files from a CD and reduced the file sizes with FLAC, without losing any sound quality. ...FLAC is one of the preferred file formats used for high-resolution audio files, which are typically much larger than an MP3 file....high-res digital copy of the song More Than a Feeling on Boston’s first album, for example, is 192MB in size. A comparably sounding FLAC version of it uses 60MB of storage. ...Google Android devices natively support FLAC audio files. https://gigaom.com/2015/01/29/crank-the-music-windows-10-phones-tablets-getting-flac-support/
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