Can you determine how pleasing an audio product will sound in your system at home, from reading reviews or from an audio sales pitch?

[Ar9Jim 6,065]

As for me, it's been difficult to find an association between most media and my personal experience with an audio product. In this market and media environment, combined with Audiophile science lies that sound good. The gullible unscientific customer is a target. I have to hear audio products at home today, because otherwise the risk is too high that the product may be a waste of my time and money. I was burned in the late 1980 chasing better resistive load measurement and my enjoyment of the hobby suffered.

 

The media today is down to describing the tonal balance of multi thousand dollar power cords in terms of veils lifted and chocolate flavors, which is entirely BS.. The credibility in the media is very sparse. These marketers of BS are doing harm to the industry in the name of the industry.  Someone being an insider should give you pause, not confidence. You don't buy cars without test drives (I hope) new audio products should be the same way, that used car salesman's words should not carry too much weight. 

 

On the other side of the audio fence, where the grass is supposedly greener, you have a measurement competition for driving sine waves into load resisters most accurately, only to have there best measuring products not be the best sounding for driving the reactive, dynamic and variable impedance loads of music and loudspeakers.. There are many conflicts of information in this industry. Protect yourself and hear a product at home. If they need a restocking fee to let me hear it, that tells me all I need to know to eliminate that product from consideration

Edited December 25, 2023 by Ar9Jim

[4krow 5,077]

Crash Test Dummies. We need them for audio.

 

 We all got taken once or twice in love or audio. 

 

 I am all in for home evaluations. I have had only two returns over the years, and one was legit. The other, well in a way was my fault for allowing a customer who 'knew a thing or two' to troubleshoot a C-9 unit. My eyes were widened by ham fisted

'repair work' that I couldn't even make up. It involved a hot glue gun replacing bolts and some really strange wiring. So it can go both ways if you let it.

[BobTFM35 1,626]

@Ar9Jim For me I think you know my answer. If it's a Carver item I know that once I bring it home, it found its forever home. A few other brands automatically get placed on the top of the list if I ever go out looking for stuff. Reviews are looked at. I would have to ask if they offer an in home evaluation.

[3M_Audio 883]

Reviews don't help for many products, but do for others. For an amp or pre-amp, it's obviously all linked to the rest of my system, the environment, and the media I'm listening to. So the review doesn't really mean too much although the typically included nice photographs and some discussion of features and perhaps underlying technology is nice. I'm not too interested in a reviewer's opinion of how they like/dislike whatever they are listening to.

 

But for other items a review would be very helpful. For example, a FM tuner (if anyone was still shopping for one) has a lot of specs that I'd love to see tested and verified against manufacturer specs.

 

For some higher end items, I tend to purchase a brand based upon the manufacturer's reputation and reviews aren't very important. As @BobTFM35 pointed out, if it's a Carver component, I have no questions about the engineering, sonic quality, longevity, etc. I pretty quickly start looking at features.

 

 

[jjptkd 1,243]

On 9/7/2023 at 5:45 AM, Ar9Jim said:

As for me, it's been difficult to find an association between most media and my personal experience with an audio product. In this market and media environment, combined with Audiophile science lies that sound good. The gullible unscientific customer is a target.

 

 It is a very difficult task too many variables like room acoustics, equipment matching, type of music, how loud you play and of course personal taste. It does get me that almost every single review seems to be positive and the unit being reviewed is almost always a "must have." I went through too many reviews to count when buying headphones recently before I decided to do my own in home trials very few online reviews matched up with what I experienced personally. 

[halfbaked 167]

I agree there are too many variables from reading an article to experience in our listening area. Luckily I am happy with my equipment. I am trying to decide on just a couple of interconnects. That itself is ridiculous what reviews have to say. As if a review of a cable costing thousands of dollars would really interest me.

[Ar9Jim 6,065]

Agree totally. The variables are too great for making any assumptions from outside your system at home. Words and reviews mean quite literally nothing. Actually, the pay to play reviews are worse than nothing, as every month has something supposedly better than the last in some "special" way. Choose your propaganda wisely. Hear for yourself with any brand.

 

As far as I'm concerned, being involved in this industry myself, should make my works suspect merely by association . Don't believe me or anyone else. Hear the product at home and compare. The differences are obvious at home. Many in this industry make used car salesman look like Mother Theresa.  

 

Then there are the industry "well connected" "insiders", that have a line of BS longer than the great wall of China. If the industry can survive the covers being pulled their old school, snake oil, BS, something good will remain. Not to mention the limited value of resistive load test, some chose to promote as relevant to how a product actually sounds when reproducing music through loudspeakers. 

 

Forgive me for a rant. Someday I might vent about what I've learned in the last 4-5 years. It will not be a pretty picture.  

Edited September 13, 2023 by Ar9Jim

[halfbaked 167]

You definitely can’t have any faith with the industry press. I remember how Stereophile after the Carver Challenge crucified the Silver 7t’s and Amazing Platinum’s after the challenge by their more than questionable reviews. Obviously they had an axe to grind after being embarrassed. I would trust opinions especially regarding Carver gear here than most “audiophiles” in the general population.

[Ratamahatta 425]

I definitely rely on the reviews more than sales pitch, private and professional. This was the case with the last few items I purchased. Especially the Audio Physic Avanti III,  it it wasn't for the glowing Stereophile review I might not have tried them.

[halfbaked 167]

I trust people like the old pro’s here far more than too many tainted reviews or sales people that you don’t know. The people here truly care about Carver and the people that visit thecarversite. That’s just my two cents with my experience here. 

[Ar9Jim 6,065]

On 9/13/2023 at 7:51 PM, halfbaked said:

You definitely can’t have any faith with the industry press. I remember how Stereophile after the Carver Challenge crucified the Silver 7t’s and Amazing Platinum’s after the challenge by their more than questionable reviews. Obviously they had an axe to grind after being embarrassed. I would trust opinions especially regarding Carver gear here than most “audiophiles” in the general population.

Good point halfbaked.

Can you imagine a point in audio history, when telling the truth would send Carver sales through the roof and also piss off most your other paying magazine advertisers at the same time.  Magazine circulation of print was more important to income at that time, than living on advertisers money and selling their products for them, as today.

We get customer reports of a competition against other brands with every sale we make. I trust those reports. We should capture the details on the brands we have faced on a level playing field. 

Edited September 17, 2023 by Ar9Jim

[halfbaked 167]

Ar9Jim you are so right. I remember back in the 1980’s trying to listen, let alone purchase Carver equipment and having different location salespeople trying to steer you away.

 

One great exception was a place where I was about to purchase the ALS after a fantastic time of problem free audition.

 

 I found that too many dealers were pushing other brands while giving Carver the cold shoulder. Sadly Bob has never even been close to a level playing field. Many people have missed out because of this.

 

I am grateful for the opportunity to enjoy Bob Carver’s work and of course all those that have helped me get to this point. I suppose now I can be a prophet for the next generation of listeners. 😁

[Ar9Jim 6,065]

We had 2 Carver dealers within a reasonable distance. One would steer you away from Carver and toward more expensive brands.

 

The other would just give auditions and didn't steer much. They sold a ton of Carver letting the gear and the value do the selling for them.

 

It's how we sell Bob's products today.. Once in the customers system compared to others, they sell themselves. 

Edited September 18, 2023 by Ar9Jim

[halfbaked 167]

Unfortunately my experience with the dealers back in the 1980’s was not that great when it came time to audition Carver equipment except one. Looking back not only a shame but a real crime against what Bob was putting out.

 

 I am happy to get a second chance at listening pleasure that I can enjoy now. I still have a inclination to maybe try some other Carver equipment out and see if it would represent an upgrade. But I need not rush the issue. Though I have to admit I do have an itch to do so.