Streamers / DACs / Online Stuff

[Brian K. Totten 318]

I want to start out to say if the topic of new streamer devices, DACs and other online music  topic is irrelevant, posted in another location, please delete this and I will understand!

The quest of this topic the desire to understand current digital streaming tech, what people have, the overall cost of the investment, differences in units, etc, etc.

I see these so called " streamers" in modern audiophile posts, but I am skeptical that there is any "audiophile" grade audio delivered by them, other than having access to material beyond a local collection.

What say you?

[Daddyjt 9,584]

It all depends on what you are looking to do.  I will freely admit that I’m a complete outlier in my digital delivery.  I have no desire of a streaming service - I have a 3tb FLAC library on SSD that I plug into an Oppo 105.  The Oppo on screen interface is a bit clunky, but I organize my FLAC into about 24 files by alphabet letter, so navigation is pretty easy.

 

I like the Oppo for the ESS Saber DACs, the fact that it plays all my SACDs & DVDAs (and virtually any other disc format known to man), and the fact that I can output the video OSD via HDMI to a screen.  Most streamers have tiny screens, no video output, and only an App to control.  This also works on the Oppo 103, which are usually between $300-$400 on the used market. 
 

I realize this seems antiquated by today’s standards, but it works for me…

 

 

[AndrewJohn 10,412]

Understanding that Digital is all about the content - as in "files" that you want to play, I see digital streaming play technology following two paths..., 

 

Path one, proprietary streamers.  These lock you into a vendor's concept "at the time" of what perfect is..., and, likely also, what "planned obsolescence" for their sustained profits can look like, in 2-5 years after you tire of the unit.  Lots of good features, remotes, etc..., but in the end, they play a digital file, through a DAC, outputting to your stereo in a format (analog, usually) that it wants to receive.

 

Path two, is technology that has an interest in achieving several things:  first, to reduce obsolescence in your technology investment, second expand your experience with knowledge about the music, the musicians, the recording studio, events around the production, and so on..., all rich data that is available on the internet..., so you can metaphorically "read" the album cover as you listen to a recording - like we used to with LPs back in the day.  Third, provide flexibility to swap out and experiment with DACs in the "digital to analog conversion" chain (can't easily do that with proprietary streamers in a meaningful, cost effective and flexible way). Fourth, allow one to integrate any number of "sources" of content..., that is things like one's own digital ripped CD collection, and sources like Qobuz and Tidal, and international sources if you are into international music - all into one visual UIX interface you operate from your phone or ipad or pc - to tell your stereo what music to stream anywhere on your network.

 

I chose path 2, as it aligns most closely to the OCCD trait of swapping out  and having flexibility with the components in my audiophile setup.

 

I wrote a long thread called "Everything, Everywhere, all at Once." about my Roon setup. It's changed a lot since I did it.  And roon has been expanding with international music sources, and a number of devices..., but in the end, I'm not locked into a ROSE or other maker's idea/design of the "perfect streamer" - I change elements of my streaming setup constantly - another element of OCCD.

 

Then again, many just like the "set it and forget it" approach of Path one.

[Kurt 2,869]

I see a lot of debate on streamers online.  People spend a lot of money on it for sure.... I really don't understand it all.  I have a simple setup, I use Qobuz on an iPad into a DAC then into my Carver Preamp.  It sounds beautiful.  So good I can't imagine it being any better.  To get better, I think the setup would have to be modifying the source sound to add color or personal preference essentially making the sound from the DAC less transparent.  But I already have my own devices to add my preferenes to the sound (Tube amp, Sonic Holography, tone controls, EQ's, etc).  I know some folks need more devices to manage their own files.  So, systems like Bluesound Node or having an Oppo to manage music on your own network would come into play.  But, I don't have my own files.  So, my simple setup is fine for me.   The iPad itself frustrates me from time to time... but it has nothing to do with the music.  (Apple is continuously updating software and trying to run my life for me, lol.)

[Sk1Bum 11,368]

All of my streaming is from my NAS. I have about 12 TB of flac files, and I stream them to various house locations in a variety of ways. One of those ways I just recently discovered. I have DNLA servers set up on the NAS itself, i.e., PLEX MinimServer, and the native Media Streamer. I use all of them for various reasons. My home theater and bedroom systems include a FireTV cube, and I have the PLEX and Audacy apps installed on the devices. Both bedroom and Home Theater also have oppo blue ray players that can stream from any of the DNLA servers. I recently discovered that my Marantz AV7702 mkII processor can also stream directly from the NAS. The oppo blue ray players have the best DAC, but as DaddyJT mentioned, the interface is so damn clunky, that I generally use the Plex app for my HT. In my main listening area, I use an oppo 105 to stream. Plex also has an Android app, and probably an IOS app too. I use the Android app on my phone and I can stream anywhere I have a cell phone signal directly from my NAS. I don't use wifi to stream with my phone, because I don't want to see my router and NAS logs fill up with hacking attempts. 

 

I will probably add a dedicated streaming device sometime in the future. The Wiim Ultra is the latest one that intrigues me, decent reviews, and a price that doesn't break the bank. I've seen it on sale for $279 at Amazon a few times, and a few times with a 10% off coupon. There are currently no deals, but the price is still reasonable at $329 + tax.

 

https://www.amazon.com/WiiM-Streamer-Touchscreen-Compatible-Headphone/dp/B0D41YCLW8

 

There's a thread about the Wiim Ultra here:

 

 

Though If I want to sit, listen, veg out, and get lost in the music, I don't stream at all. I either play SACD, DVD-A, or vinyl. 

[xavionics 2,067]

Here’s what I’ve been running for years:

 

Sonos streamers. Several ‘Connect’ units. I upgraded my main system to their ‘Port’ unit which is an improvement in sound quality over the aging ‘Connect’ units.
Simple interface - their app will run on most any mobile device.

It supports Qobuz, Tidal, Pandora, internet radio, and will play files from a NAS.

My main system runs the Sonos Port digital output through a separate DAC. An Arcam unit I’ve been quite happy with. All other Sonos Connects feed various preamps or receivers an analog output signal.

The Sonos Port and Arcam DAC combined cost me around $1300 iirc.

And then some experiments I’ve been involved in, in the pursuit of better sound:

 

My $800 Arcam DAC vs a $1500 Mytek DAC shootout.

As expected, the Mytek was the superior device. Not superior enough to make me run out and replace the Arcam though.

 

Another shootout - the theory being ‘resident files’ (cd or ripped files) will sound better than streamed files ( in this case, streamed via Tidal using a wired connection).

The setup - my 2009 MacBook - Mytek DAC - preamp - amp…

We played several various cds through my MacBooks internal player, and streamed the same music via Tidal, again through my MacBook.

In each case (and a bit to our surprise) the cds sounded quite noticeably better than the streams.

We did not pursue any possible reasons why.
It was enough of a difference that I ripped my entire cd collection to a usb hard drive for use at AXPONA 2024. 

 

In the end, I’m still streaming through my Sonos Port via my aging Arcam DAC. 
It works, is easy to use and it sounds good enough for now.
 

[AndrewJohn 10,412]

I forgot to mention, that Roon, also integrates all those other streamers - some better than others, of course because of the streamer's limitations (e.g., Plex, Sonos, Airplay, Chromecast, Rose, Audessy, ..., now that just about every receiver has some integrated "streaming" short-cut in it, if the receiver, or component, is connected to your network via ethernet or wifi..., Roon will see it as a play device or what they call an "end point".   Heck, Roon even sees my desktop PC (with it's klipsch pc speakers) as an enpoint, and will play it's playlist to my PC...!

 

A full list of the Roon Partners in their ecosystem that are seamlessly driven by the Roon experience is here: https://roon.app/en/partners I've always also been able to find great support on the Roon community forums where the last 10 years of Roon, has generated a community not unlike that around Carver...

 

Roon has a "Roon Ready" certification / partner program where they work with all these streaming device makers to ensure that they can be controlled by Roon's unified interface that integrates both content (source input) and output components (where you are listening).

 

So..., that means that Roon simplifies all these UIX's into one common, grand-unified experience - set it up once, and use the Roon UI from your phone, ipad, or pc, to control playing music in all your locations where music can be streamed.

 

I focused on the flexibility of componentization (DAC and stereo-system) because that is what interests me the most - and getting the purest, highest-resolution, loss-less music content playing through any number of my Carver systems.  For grins, I set up my Marantz AV receiver to be controlled by Roon - but I don't use it that often.

 

Here's a link to Roon's Roon Ready partner update - not an exhaustive list..., but shows where they are at compatibility, and future interest in your investment (over locking you into one streamer).  https://blog.roonlabs.com/roon-ready-partner-update-april-2025/

 

I also left out that with Roon ARC, I can take my streaming into my car, and playlists are portable..., just as if I was at home..., (can't do that with a stand-alone streamer component.

[Brian K. Totten 318]

On 5/25/2025 at 9:24 AM, AndrewJohn said:

I chose path 2, as it aligns most closely to the OCCD trait of swapping out  and having flexibility with the components in my audiophile setup.

 

Well said and in the end what I have in mind!

[AndrewJohn 10,412]

10 hours ago, Brian K. Totten said:

Well said and in the end what I have in mind!

 

A good place to start, get your feet wet, and examine all the capability and flexibility Roon has to offer..., is their CEO's youtube video channel.  Some really good learning there about streaming in general, and how Roon is approaching delivery of digital audio like no other supplier (in the content side e.g., Tidal iTunes, etc..., component side, e.g., Rose, Sonus, or the receiver side, e.g., Denon, Marantz).  From all those perspectives the solutions are limiting the potential grand flexibility to solve streaming from a myopic perspective to sell their device or content, alone.

 

Here's the link to the YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/@roonlabs

 

The CEO's introduction videos are the ones with the blue background (see image below) on their home-page on the channel.  The other videos are good too - but the basics and getting started videos are in the ones by the CEO.  

 

Enjoy !  This is a great journey you are on .