Hello, New here- C-1 vs C-11 vs C-4000 — Looking for guidance

[Denny28 10]

Hello,

I am Dennis from Vancouver area, Canada.

C-1 vs C-11 vs C-4000 — Looking for guidance

I first got into Carver gear around 1988. My original system was two M-1.0t amplifiers, a CT-7 preamp, and Cerwin Vega D-9 speakers. Unfortunately all of that was stolen.

Years later I started over. My current system consists of three M-1.0t amplifiers, a CT-17 preamp, Mirage M1 speakers, a Denon CD player, a tape deck, and associated gear. Over the years I have had my share of failures, mostly self-inflicted, but overall the system has worked well. The CT-17 currently has a display light out but still functions. The system has not been used for a few years due to some amplifier issues and a couple of moves, but I am hoping to have everything set up again by the end of this year. Two of my M-1.0t amplifiers are currently at Nelion being refurbished and upgraded.

That brings me to my preamp questions.

Even though my CT-17 still works, I am interested in finding a C-1 or C-11. I know there are some internal differences, but from what I understand they are basically the same design. Is there enough difference between the C-1 and C-11 to make one clearly better than the other?

Second, how do the C-1 and C-11 compare to the C-4000? I like the simplicity of the C-1 and C-11 layout, but the C-4000 seems to be more common on the used market. I would appreciate any feedback on sound quality, usability, and long-term ownership.

I have also found a local C-11 for about 250 dollars, although the faceplate and cosmetics are not in great shape compared to my other gear. I would plan to have it refurbished and upgraded anyway. Is it still a good candidate at that price, or should I wait for a better one?

Thanks in advance. I am looking forward to getting this system back up and running.

Have a great day,

Dennis

[Charlie 17,554]

Glad you found us @Denny28!!

 

I have owned a C-4000, C-1000, 4000T, C-11 and 4 x C-1's [I still have the C-1's with the BillD and Gundry Notch upgrade]; I prefer the C-1 because it is not quite as complex as the others are and still delivers excellent sound capabilities.  You really can't go wrong with any of the choices and the prices seem legit but no matter what you decide you will definitely need to have a qualified tech  inspect and/or restore the unit (I Did) Here is the tech I used to restore over 27 amps and preamps

 

Nelion Audio - Authorized Carver Repair

 

Good luck on your journey!!!

 

Edited January 12 by Charlie

[Sk1Bum 12,418]

Hello Dennis, glad you found us!

 

I have a BillD modded C-1, a Bonzoro modded 4000t, and a stock C-11. All 3 of them sound fantastic with a nod to the C-1 and 4000t due to the modifications. Personally, I like the 4000t ->||<- much more over the C-1, but that's just personal taste. The good news is, no matter which route you go, you won't be wrong.  

 

Nelion is a great choice for your amps, and also for your preamps. 

 

If that $250 price for the C-1 is Canadian dollars, then that's a really good price. If it's US dollars, it's still a decent price. If the faceplate is the only cosmetic issue, replacements are available on ebay. 

 

[jeffs 3,456]

4 hours ago, Denny28 said:

I have also found a local C-11 for about 250 dollars, although the faceplate and cosmetics are not in great shape compared to my other gear.

If the faceplate is banged up and the knobs are chipped and dinged - I would avoid it.  If you are going to need to spend $100 more on an aftermarket faceplate, then why not spend that up-front on a $350 unit in nice/pristine condition?

You won't be happy with the banged up cosmetics.

 

4 hours ago, Denny28 said:

I am interested in finding a C-1 or C-11. I know there are some internal differences, but from what I understand they are basically the same design.

Correct.  IIRC the C-11 has a bit higher line gain, which should be lowered regardless of which unit you buy.  Both are too high.  The C-11 has a different Sonic Holography implementation.  The C-1 face will match your m1.0t nicely.

[BobTFM35 3,002]

Welcome to the Carver Site!!

Sorry to hear about your original systems fate.

 

An excellent start for your new system with two(2) Nelion restored amps!!

 

I'm not sure I am able to give you any guidance on the preamp front. Choosing one of those units would be very difficult for me. I might be inclined to go after all three for a variety of different reasons and how I want to setup my system based on my existing gear.

 

I've had two of the three in my system at one time and can go to my sons house to listen to them.

 

If I had to choose just one based on what I have at the present moment, it would be a 4000 or a 4000t. I would be able to pair up my stand alone Carver DTL with one and the Phase Linear 1000 series 2 with the other.

 

You said that you had a tape deck, cassette or R2R? Do you also have a TT?

 

No matter what you purchase I'm sure that you will be happy.

 

 

 

 

[Denny28 10]

Hello all, thank you for the WELCOM and Feed Back!!!!

Always so may options decisions hahaha.

 

@Charlie — Thanks, that’s really helpful. I like the idea of keeping things simpler, especially if the sonic performance is still there. And yes, Nelion already has two of my M-1.0t’s, so I’m comfortable sending a preamp there as well.

@Sk1Bum — Good to hear you’ve lived with all three. Sounds like the mods really tip the balance. And yes, the $250 is in Canadian dollars, so that makes me feel better about it. I didn’t realize faceplates were available separately.

@jeffs — That’s a fair point. The cosmetics are what give me pause. If I’m going to restore it anyway, maybe I should just wait for a cleaner unit and start from a better base. Good info on the C-11 gain and Sonic Holography differences too.

@BobTFM35 — Thanks for the welcome. I’m running a cassette deck at the moment and thinking on a turn table eventually. The flexibility of the 4000/4000t is part of what makes it tempting.

Appreciate all the input — this really helps me narrow things down.

Take care,

Dennis 

[Half Life 980]

Welcome fro0m VA!  Enjoy your stay!

 

I currently have a CT-27 (not being used too much lately), C-1 (BillD Mod and Gundry Filter) and a 4000t (waiting for an open spot on the workbench).  I don't have any experience with the C-11, maybe someday.  I really like the C-1; I have it paired to my M-1.0t (modified by Greg at Nelion).  I'm hoping to refurb the 4000t soon so I can see how it compares to the C1.

 

Good luck in your search!

[4krow 7,165]

Glad that you found us. i have little experience with these units except refurbishing some of them. Note: I am no technician just a parts changer for the most part, but I can say this>> The C-1 was heads and shoulders above the C4000 in terms of internal quality and ease of working on. The C4000 that I worked on ended up as a shame to my eyes and had to be completed by someone else on this site. Others may not have the issued that I encountered so there is that. What I am leading up to is that I would prefer to work on a C-1 before anything else, and from what I gather here, most people have a preference for it in general. 

[Receiver2000 4,373]

Welcome - good to have you with us Dennis.