Home made sonic hologram setup

[oldenit 18]

Hopefully this is an acceptable question. Back in the late 70’s or early 80’s or so Bob Carver published instructions on how to make your own sonic hologram and gave license to do it and use it. That is what started me buying his equipment. I owned a lot of Carver equipment starting with Phase Linear and then his own named equipment. 

I used his instructions to experiment and to make my own and wondered if anyone else did and if those instructions are still available. I looked through the site and didn’t see anything though I could have missed it. 

 

 

[Sk1Bum 12,714]

Hello oldenit and welcome to thecarversite.com. Glad you found us!

 

I don't recall reading about DIY Sonic Hologram circuits, but I do recall someone, maybe @Nahash5150 offering Gundry PCBs for sale. For my lack of knowledge of the circuits, I think the Gundry mod is modified Sonic Hologram circuit. Hopefully someone with more knowledge of the circuits and the mod will chime in.

 

I hope that helps.

 

[Charlie 18,114]

Welcome aboard!

 

[AndrewJohn 10,806]

welcome @oldenit, glad you found us.

 

I recall many MANY years ago (15-20?, stumbling across that document/article published by Bob Carver on DIY sonic holography - on the early internet before it was so good at retaining everything...

 

But, alas, I never saved it, and can't find it now..., either.

 

When you built yours, from Bob's instructions, did you keep it?  If so, can you post a picture of it?

 

However, one of our members has built their own SH circuit - and there's a thread on his work that he sold here:

 

 

[oldenit 18]

22 minutes ago, AndrewJohn said:

welcome @oldenit, glad you found us.

 

I recall many MANY years ago (15-20?, stumbling across that document/article published by Bob Carver on DIY sonic holography - on the early internet before it was so good at retaining everything...

 

But, alas, I never saved it, and can't find it now..., either.

 

When you built yours, from Bob's instructions, did you keep it?  If so, can you post a picture of it?

 

However, one of our members has built their own SH circuit - and there's a thread on his work that he sold here:

 

 

Sadly when I was in the army I packed it away with the rest of my stereo and some greedy person stole everything while I was in Germany in the 80’s. I had a box of instructions and manuals for all my stereo that also had a printed copy of the Carver instructions. All are gone now. 
 

I vaguely remember the Carver SH used a second set of speakers that were hooked up a certain way but that is all I can remember.   
 

I can’t see what you posted. Wish I could. 

[AndrewJohn 10,806]

3 minutes ago, oldenit said:

I can’t see what you posted. Wish I could. 

 

You should be able to see it - it is just a thread, available to anyone who joins and becomes a member.  We've relaxed nearly all of the requirements to participate in this forum - any spamming, and us Mods and Admins just jump on it and delete it.  So, you're a member, you should see the link to the other thread.  

 

Not sure why..., are you looking at the site on an iPhone? or small screen?  Wonky-ness may be due to that - but on a PC or laptop, I know it's visible (I go over to my wife's pc, who's NOT a member, and see it there).

[Sk1Bum 12,714]

I

3 minutes ago, oldenit said:

I can’t see what you posted. Wish I could. 

 

It's a link to another thread. If you click or tap on the dark area where it says "Custom surface mount "C9" for sale" it should take you to the thread that AndrewJohn referred to.

 

[BobTFM35 3,039]

The mention of a second set of speakers made me remember when I was running dynaco equipment. They had a unit,SCA-80Q, which "enables Dynaquad 4-dimensional playback". Along with your front speakers you wired a set of rear speakers to give you that "4-dimensional playback".

 

 

Edited February 17 by BobTFM35

[AndrewJohn 10,806]

Maybe the H-9AV is Bob's version of, or combination of the Dynaco, with his two-channel Sonic Holography... ?

 

I have two of these, one works, the other produces gawd-awful feedback..., need to look into that.

 

 

There is one two-channel input, with four processed outputs to hook up to a front and a rear pair of speakers via the Carver (of course) amp of your choice.

 

 

The controls on the front allow you to "engage the SH", apply focal zoom, or the precognition matrix (found in 4000t preamps, IIRC). with an adjustable precognition level when that option is engaged.  

 

 

Hmmm, I've been doing it all wrong..., I (without reading the manual) have always thought this was for two front, and two rear speaker configuration..., 

 

But, reading the manual for the first time..., it's really for 4 or 5 speakers, placed as pseudo 4 or 5-channel surround placement, with proper amplifiers for the combined channels for front center, and for rear center (or rear split, driving two speakers with the same output).

 

 

I learn something new every day - now I have to try this setup, and see how it works.

 

the remainder of the manual is just plain-old 2 channel SH information (same as all other manuals of the period) describing the front left and right speaker placement, toe-in, and so on...

 

I got some fun to go have ..., ah yes, another project!

[4krow 7,239]

36 minutes ago, BobTFM35 said:

The mention of a second set of speakers made me remember when I was running dynaco equipment. They had a unit,SCA-80Q, which "enables Dynaquad 4-dimensional playback". Along with your front speakers you wired a set of rear speakers to give you that "4-dimensional playback".

 

 

 

 

Ah, the Quad era of audio. It could have had promise but as usual everyone made a different format. The beauty of Bob's design was doing this with only two speakers and no special recordings required except that they be stereo and two mics I think? 

 Yes AJ, the H9-AV was a unique product, that is for sure. I only used it as two channel myself, but thought that it might have some merit over the C-9 in that you could adjust the matrix control. I only used it at about the 9 o'clock position though, because more resulted in too much of a good thing.

Edited February 17 by 4krow
Keeping astride

[oldenit 18]

I have the Carver C9 that worked really great if you used a tape measure to set speakers and the listening chair or couch in my life. 
 

Although it just today decided to start blowing the 1/8 amp fuse when the engage button was used. Possibly a direct short the way it blew. 
 

I was just interested in tinkering with the free Carver SH if instructions could be found. I’m 72 and disabled from the army so I have lots of spare time so I’m getting back into electronics and experimenting. 

[Jeff Stone 249]

Thank you for your service @oldenit🙏 

[4krow 7,239]

If you run into a hitch let me know. Many times, it can be a simple thing really, and yes, I too appreciate your service to our country.

[Sk1Bum 12,714]

59 minutes ago, oldenit said:

I’m 72 and disabled from the army

 

Yes, thank you for your service and your sacrifice. 

[oldenit 18]

Thank you all. It is much appreciated by me and all the others who serve/served. Always great to hear. 

[Half Life 1,087]

@oldenit, from one Vet to another, thank you for your service!  Much appreciated!

 

Phil

Navy Vet

[Half Life 1,087]

Did some digging and came up with two possibilities of what you may have read back then.  Not sure if either of these are what you remember but they may be close.

 

https://www.worldradiohistory.com/Archive-All-Audio/Archive-Audio/80s/Audio-1982-03.pdf

Bob Carver’s “Sonic Holography” article — Audio magazine (March 1982) pages 26-35

 

https://www.worldradiohistory.com/Archive-Radio-Electronics/80s/1982/Radio-Electronics-1982-06.pdf

“Build Your Own Stereo Image Expander” — Radio-Electronics (June 1982) pages 45-48

[4krow 7,239]

 Both of those reads were like an old memory. I didn't read much of anything but was reminded of everything way back then. Chrome tapes, cassette decks, what was the beginning for me of digital products coming on board, and oh yah, that Carver stuff, including the explanation of Magnetic Field Amplification! Man, that stuff was all hidden in my memory until I started rolling through the pages. I couldn't tell whether the drawing/schematic of the build it yourself SH was true to form as compared to the Carver, because as soon as somebody adds tape ins/outs, more switches stuff like that I tend to lose focus. It does appear however, that the same process was intended using phase reversal, a bit of delay, and cancellation, though I did not see cancellation in the drawing specifically. My bad though, like I said glancing at these circuits, I get lost pretty quick. 

 Jeffs has got it down for his DIY unit, and one of the best aspects about it is the remote control for the SH effect switched in or out. That is a big deal. Now if someone would just provide a 'volume' knob to the whole thing that lets you choose the amount of SH I would be crazy about it.

[oldenit 18]

Thank you for your service also @Half Life. It’s good to hear from others who served. 
 

The Audio magazine with the article by Bob Carver on pages 26 to 35 explains the reasoning behind the sonic hologram and touches on what I remember about using two extra speakers crossfed canceling signals rings a bell. I remember having two smaller speakers a little closer to the listening chair/couch and I vaguely remember the crossfed signals. While this is the basic setup in this magazine it is not the one I remember. I have been searching all day trying to find that exact article. I’m glad you found this article because it rocked my sometimes dormant mind into remembering. 
 

The one I remember was an article with him explaining it and going deeper into the setup and then saying he gives anyone who sets one up the right to use it free of charge as long as it was for personal use only. 

[Half Life 1,087]

I'll try to dig some more.  I'll see if an AI, like ChatGPT can help narrow this down a bit.

[jmcipale 91]

Coming late to this party, obviously - but if I recall, the original germ of this idea came from David Hafler when he was a designer for Dynaco. It was in Stereo Review back in the late 70's where I recall reading it as well. Here is the wiki link:
Hafler Circuit

[oldenit 18]

@jmcipale yes. That is basically what I remember from Bob Carvers article. Almost 50 years has dulled my memory but it does look a lot like what I can remember. But something is missing in my mind about Carvers article. 
 

I think the 60’s and 70’s was harder on me than I remember 😂 

 

thanks for the posting this 

[AndrewJohn 10,806]

Bob Carver's patent for Sonic Holography is here:  US4218585A - Dimensional sound producing apparatus and method - Google Patents

 

It is surprisingly revealing..., and every time I read it, I learn some minutia or detail.  Check it out. The figures (2 of 4, really describe the circuit design - I think).

 

Another reference is the topic of "Ambiphonics."  That field is: "a method in the public domain that employs digital signal processing (DSP) and two loudspeakers directly in front of the listener in order to improve reproduction of stereophonic and 5.1 surround sound for music, movies, and games in home theaters, gaming PCs, workstations, or studio monitoring applications." 

 

Wikipedia has a good article, here: Ambiophonics - Wikipedia

 

The first "roots and research" reference is to Bob Carver and Sonic Holography.  And, the license of Sonic Holography from Bob Carver for use in Polk speaker design "marketed in 1982 by Polk Audio as "true stereo" in its SDA-SRS, SDA1 and SDA2 series speakers."  This one is another good read!

[oldenit 18]

@AndrewJohn thank you. Great reads. I used to devour anything electronic - from my crypto days - and I found these links very interesting. Now that I have lots of spare time I have rekindled my interest in electronics especially stereo. 
 

My memory of the Carver sonic hologram bubbled up in my head and the memory of that one article with free license to make his SH for home use is just bugging me to no end. All the posts here have basically answered all my questions but it is still nagging me to find that article which may never happen. 

[4krow 7,239]

I had the same experience with a John Belushi weekend update skit where he rambles on about Christmas, and all he wanted for Christmas was a pony, so on Christmas morning he opened up a package there was a sweater with a pony on it. He looked at them, they looked him, yelling started and a fight began, and then, somebody pulled out a shotgun!

  I memorized it but never once found reference to it in searches. Why?