Help on nearfield speaker placement

[Pitchinwedge 6]

 

I think my speaker positioning is all wrong.   

 

The room is 160 inches x 135 inches.  The speakers and computer monitors are positioned along the longer wall (160 inches).  They are on Dynaudio Stand-1s.  I'm experiencing poor imaging/soundstage and weak bass performance at my listening position. Soundstage and bass improve the further away I sit from the desk.  Bass rounds out nicely if I'm almost against the back wall.

 

So far, I tried placing the speakers as close and also as far away from the wall as possible.  Also moved them far apart as possible and as close as possible without hiding them going behind the PC monitors.  

 

Best compromise seems to be furthest from the wall while being widest apart.  Drivers are 20 inches from the rear wall and 32 inches from the side walls.  My listening position is 55 to 60 inches from the wall and directly between the speakers. 

 

Any suggestions to firstly improve bass response and secondly to improve the imaging/soundstage? Should I be considering front-ported speaker design? 

 

 

 

 

[fill35U 1,848]

Well, there's the old adage that to find the best speaker position for bass, place it in your listening position, then walk around the room and find the places where the bass sounds best. That's where you locate the speaker. 

[fill35U 1,848]

There's an awful lot of advice on setting up near-field monitors HERE .

 

 

[zumbini 6,153]

I have a similar issue in my home office. Moving the speakers to the wall behind me made a big improvement.

[dcl 3,292]

The Room  chain has topics with helpful information. Worth revisiting every so often.

[Pitchinwedge 6]

The sound test was awesome! http://thecarversite.com/yetanotherforum/default.aspx?g=posts&t=7924

 

Definitely have some issues under 200hz.   Much better result with my listening position against the back wall.   Unfortunately, I can't reach the desk from there, lol.  Plus, I imagine with greater distance between me and the speakers they will have to be placed wider as to not be blocked out by the monitors.  

 

Is this why people buy "monitors" instead of nice bookshelf speakers? 

 

[Pitchinwedge 6]

Sound test left me a little dizzy.  

[Jim Coash 126]

I would place them closer together and use a small sub to allow independent bass adjustment.  In a room like that, with those hard surfaces and having to sit at your keyboard the options are limited.  Just like in a car, finding a good place for speakers sometimes just isn't a very viable option.  If you don't like them where they are then move them to a different wall entirely where you can be further away.  Hang a couple tapestry artworks on the walls and maybe some soft furniture to breakup the standing waves.  Is there a rug on the floor?  There is nothing wrong with the equipment, just the limitations of the room.  Jim

[Pitchinwedge 6]

Thanks Jim for the idea.  It's pretty strange having the whole house thumping along while I hear very little bass at my seat.  Adding a sub is a pretty good idea.  How to crossover the mains so they stop reproducing the low frequencies?  The entire floor is carpeted but I probably should add something to the walls.

[Zoom 373]

Jim is right about reflection. 

 

And, really, in the picture, your 'source stack' is not only dampening your direct left channel width, but also the first order reflection from that wall.  Try moving it under the desk for a day.

 

Add a sub enclosure.  You can find them on CL for around $100 powered occasionally  Move it into the corner once, and if it gets boomy or disappears, slowly angle it toward the center of the room.

 

I have found the better quality you get, the cleaner you get, the more obvious your weak points are.  After you get them right, that's when it really sounds great.

 

[zumbini 6,153]

....Adding a sub is a pretty good idea.  How to crossover the mains so they stop reproducing the low frequencies?

Most powered subs include an adjustable high pass crossover for your mains.

[DaveStL 85]

Adjusting toe-in might help imaging, and might allow you to bring the speakers a little forward of the monitors.  Try getting perpendiculars from the speaker faces to cross somewhere between the tip of your nose and just behind your ears; from the picture it looks like they cross several feet behind you.  Could cause head-in-a-vise effect, but it doesn't seem worse than what you describe now

 

IDK if putting the speakers a little lower and forward (almost on the desk) might give some boundary reinforcement for the bass--it works for farfield/floorstanders.  Or you could try making side-baffles to simulate a wall.

 

Or could you put the speakers on the back wall, esp. close to the corners, w/ appropriate toe?  You wouldn't be facing the soundstage, though--kind of like car audio.

 

Tough nut to crack!

 

edits--I see Dom and Jim have beaten me to some of these ideas.

[weitrhino 1,445]

Your listening position should be 38% of the distance between the speakers and the back wall. From that position attempt to create an equilateral triangle. Align the toe angle to cross just in front of your face.

 

1,2,3,done.

[Pitchinwedge 6]

Ordered a matching sub (Pioneer SW-8mkII)  I'd like to somehow high-pass the mains and low-pass to the sub.  

 

Any suggestion on how to do it passively?  Don't want to spend any more $$ or add more components.

[Zoom 373]

I'm assuming a non-powered sub?

A low pass passive crossover is as simple as the proper coil inline with the positive lead.

A high pass can be a bit more complicated, but you can run the fronts full range temporarily, remembering that the lower frequencies will be loading the amp at 4ohms.

That's the cheapest way to start....

[Jim Coash 126]

We used the Jim Winey formula for placement at TSR.  First, the distance between the speakers should be 7/10 the distance to them measured from the listener's head to the plane of the fronts.  Second, speakers should always be at least 12" from the back wall, preferably, twice that.  Third, a small amount of toe-in is good, but not very much.  Finally, the speakers should never be in corners and should be equidistant from the nearest corner dividing the width of the front wall into thirds with the listener at the apex of a triangle and the two speakers at each corner of the baseline.  I don't always follow those rules because it doesn't always fit the room but I do try to start with that formula.  Tweeters always at ear height from the floor with the listener in normal position.  In my case, that is seated.  As I have said before, in my room, the very best spot is actually in a chair between Martha's and mine.  We are each just a little off axis but the KEF Reference Ones are very forgiving.  In my basement shop there are usually at least three operating systems, one framing the Sharp flat screen over the fireplace, one at the bottom of the stairs I use for copy work and then another on my Salamander rack where I set up tests of units I am working on.  I just pick one each day.  Jim 

[Pitchinwedge 6]

I want to high-pass the mains at maybe 100-200hz because the bass they're putting can be heard loud enough throughout the rest of the room (and in adjacent rooms).  My issue is that I just don't hear any of it at my listening position.  

 

Hence, relieve the mains of bass duty (which I can't hear anyways) and transfer it a sub, which may have better frequency response at my seat.

 

About the sub per Pioneer's website: 

 

• 50W FTC Power Output
• Vented Enclosure for Extended bass
• Phase and Frequency controls for Customizable Setup
• High and Low-Level Inputs for flexible Installation

[Pitchinwedge 6]

Thanks for the tip Jim.  I wish I could place the speakers more optimally. Since I'm listening while I work, I have to deal with 3 computer screens right in front of me.  Makes for strange results.

[Pitchinwedge 6]

From Parts Express.... looks like it would work.  Wonder if it's any good.

 

 

100 Hz High Pass 8 Ohm Crossover

 

 

 

[RichP714 3,168]

 

 

http://thecarversite.com/yetanotherforum/default.aspx?g=posts&m=78376#post78376

[Zoom 373]

 

 

From Parts Express.... looks like it would work.  Wonder if it's any good.

 

 

100 Hz High Pass 8 Ohm Crossover

 

 

 

Idk about quality, but you're on the right track.  A powered sub will have it's own (most likely active) low pass in it.

 

[zumbini 6,153]

I'm assuming a non-powered sub?

Apparently it's an active subwoofer with a small (50W) amp and an adjustable low pass.

It does NOT have line level outputs or a high pass so he'll need a passive XO for his mains.