Mark's Kappa 9 Quest

[Daddyjt 9,612]

 

 

Nice Mark! If you have the crossover pots set at normal on those right now, wait till you turn the pots up all the way on the Semit's and Emit's. Your going to hear some spooky 5hi7.

 

Yea, I just set everything to flat, and the switches to Extended. I NEED to get the Silver 9t pair recapped...

[Gene C 1,748]

Yea, I just set everything to flat, and the switches to Extended. I NEED to get the Silver 9t pair recapped...

 

You can still run the Silver 9t's now, they will still have enough in them to drive those speakers with no problem.

[Daddyjt 9,612]

I've listened to the following on CD: James Taylor, Allison Krause, Bela Fleck, Jennifer Warnes, Skryllix, Deadmou5, AC/DC, and Erasure. On SACD/DVD Audio: Dire Straits, Fleetwood Mac, Donald Fagen, BB King/Clapton, and Sarah Brightman. No vinyl yet - trying to stick to what I know, to get a baseline.

 

Some random thoughts:

 

Starting at the top, the highs are outstanding - clear, crisp, and detailed, but NEVER piercing or over-bright. The midrange is pure bliss - IMHO, the number one reason to acquire these speakers. Vocals are exquisite - I am hearing details I've never heard before, in tracks I've listened to hundreds of times, on many systems. The bass is the only thing I'm fighting with right now. The Klipsch were much more active and "punchy" on the low end. However, I need to get the 9s into the correct position before I can really evaluate this. Also,...

 

I NEVER thought I'd say this, but two 1.0t mkII amps are not enough,- at least at the volume I like to listen at. I read all the posts and talk about them being "amp killers", but I figured I was safe. While I think my mkIIs like stretching their legs, I will get my 9ts recapped soon - one has been disassembled for farrrr too long. Ordering caps tonight - the kappas were the kick in the ass I needed to get these recapped. I'm thinking 9ts on the low ends, and each top end getting one channel of a mkII.

 

Did I mention how B I G these are? No, really - they're HUGE. If you get a pair, be prepared - they WILL be the biggest, coolest things in your room, and they will be the first thing anyone entering your room notices.

 

I love these so much, that I am already making plans to hoard back-up drivers (EMITs, Polydomes, etc...) just in case I have a failure, I can keep them going.

 

No recapping needed in the crossovers - Arnie designed them with all polypropylene capacitors:-)

 

More to come:-)

[Gene C 1,748]

You will be fighting with the bass on those drivers for some time. For starters, they are on a concrete floor (like mine), wood floors allow for the bass to travel.  Class A amps like Krell are going to be the amps if you want booming bass from those. Remember they are not a bass reflex set up (non ported). I ran my CT-17 and bypassed my TGP-III to see if I could get a little more pre juice to the amps to pump up the bass a little. It did hit a little harder.... A little. You have to remember what these speakers require, which is why I'm running 4 subs so I have plenty of low Hz on tap. The speakers sing like they are supposed to and will introduce you to a new world of sound, but driving them full range without a 120lb amp will cause you to pick your battles carefully.

 

For me I couldn't be happier with 4 Silver 7t's, due to my difficult road of amp swapping.

 

You have one advantage over me, I don't have the 9t's. So you have that extra boost on the bottom end that my 7t's don't.

[Daddyjt 9,612]

 

 

You will be fighting with the bass on those drivers for some time. For starters, they are on a concrete floor (like mine), wood floors allow for the bass to travel. Class A amps like Krell are going to be the amps if you want booming bass from those. Remember they are not a bass reflex set up (non ported). I ran my CT-17 and bypassed my TGP-III to see if I could get a little more pre juice to the amps to pump up the bass a little. It did hit a little harder.... A little. You have to remember what these speakers require, which is why I'm running 4 subs so I have plenty of low Hz on tap. The speakers sing like they are supposed to and will introduce you to a new world of sound, but driving them full range without a 120lb amp will cause you to pick your battles carefully.

For me I couldn't be happier with 4 Silver 7t's, due to my difficult road of amp swapping.

You have one advantage over me, I don't have the 9t's. So you have that extra boost on the bottom end that my 7t's don't.

 

I love a challenge:-) actually, I've never run my sub except for movies... Looks like I'll be trying that.

 

If I had to choose, I think I'd keep the midrange bliss over the punchy bass -- and that's with only a couple of hours of seat time with the kappas. Then there's vinyl... Oh my:-)

[Gene C 1,748]

Remember to check out your PDF's I sent you. Running the speakers in extended mode on the MKII's may not be the ticket, try in normal mode bass should tighten up a bit.

 

Position; Your going to want some distance between you and those speakers, they are meant for large rooms (I barely squeak by with my living room dimensions).

 

Toe; Try with no toe, I used to toe them in until after a thread on toe here was started last year. After more research I found I had this shit all wrong. So now they point straight ahead with no toe per manufacturers recommendation.

 

You will have to learn certain things about your room that I could never explain to you. As well you can't always trust your ears with these speakers, what you thought was right turns out to be a humbling experience later. So you have got some experimenting ahead of you, this will be fun.

[Belvedere2 232]

Good luck with those Kappas. I'm having fun myself changing positions on my Infinities. Just moving them forward one inch changed the sound. Definately no toe in. Moved em around till I found a good soundstage then tweaked from there.

[Gene C 1,748]

Demo any vinyl tonight?

[Daddyjt 9,612]

No sir - I was working on amps most if the day and night, trying to get somewhat caught up...:-(

 

I need to create a small window to work on my own amps (9ts)....:-)

 

In the VERY near future though... I'm thinking it's gotta be PF first up on the ProJect:-)

[Zoom 373]

 

 

You will be fighting with the bass on those drivers for some time. For starters, they are on a concrete floor (like mine), wood floors allow for the bass to travel.  Class A amps like Krell are going to be the amps if you want booming bass from those. Remember they are not a bass reflex set up (non ported). I ran my CT-17 and bypassed my TGP-III to see if I could get a little more pre juice to the amps to pump up the bass a little. It did hit a little harder.... A little. You have to remember what these speakers require, which is why I'm running 4 subs so I have plenty of low Hz on tap. The speakers sing like they are supposed to and will introduce you to a new world of sound, but driving them full range without a 120lb amp will cause you to pick your battles carefully.

 

For me I couldn't be happier with 4 Silver 7t's, due to my difficult road of amp swapping.

 

You have one advantage over me, I don't have the 9t's. So you have that extra boost on the bottom end that my 7t's don't.

Interesting swap with the CT-17 and the TGP, Gene.  Do you think it's got a little more pre-out voltage? 

I send mine into my C-11 for enough pre-outs to run everything......

 

[Gene C 1,748]

 

Interesting swap with the CT-17 and the TGP, Gene.  Do you think it's got a little more pre-out voltage? 

I send mine into my C-11 for enough pre-outs to run everything......

 

Lets just say the output on the CT-17 is much different than the TGP-III not good not bad just different. It would be interesting to see what the V output is on paper between those two pre's, I think the CT-17 has more. I have never tried turning off the subs with the TGP and the mains are set to large so they should be getting the full signal. One of these days I'm going to try the C-1 on there and see if it sounds different/better.

 

EDIT: The CT-17 says 6v output. The TGP-III does not give me the output specs in the appendix.

[Jim Coash 126]

I sold quite a few pair of Infinity speakers.  I found that they were one of the most difficult to set up I ever dealt with.  Obviously they are different technology than most others.  The best advice I can give you is that you should keep plenty of room to the outside of the speakers.  If the room is 20' wide, then 20 divided by 3=almost 7 feet.  I would make that the distance between them, or perhaps a little more.  Plenty of space to either side of both, at least 2' or even 3' from the back wall, little or no toe in and be sure they are leveled perfectly and that all four spikes contact the floor equally.  Given the nature of their rather "hot" high end, avoid anything that will accentuate the highs.  They also have a bit of the "west coast" bump in the lowest frequencies.  That is why I like to actively crossover at just below 100 hz and use a good flat sub, like my Sunfire Signature for that last bit of bottom end.  I would stay away from tone controls and use some room acoustic tweaks to help control the sizzle.  Jim

[Gene C 1,748]

For starters the Kappa 9a series does not come with spikes nor have I seen anyone use them on those particular speakers (does not mean someone has not tried it before). The Kappa 9a's are required to have 4 feet of distance from the wall if you can swing it. Have not heard any west coast bump from the Kappa series, the 8's have more pronounced bass due to being easier to drive than the 9's. Your source material can be scrutinized with the 8's just as easily with the 9's. The only people I have heard of that stated the 9's had more bass then they knew what to do with had some very heavy and expensive amps tied to them. Probably had some very simple pre's in the mix that did not add a lot of color to the sound too.

 

I have heard of individuals altering the resistors on the Kappa 9's so that they were easier to drive too. But that right there tells me they know more than Arnie.

[Jim Coash 126]

Using some kind of spike or cone was one "mod" I made on speakers I owned if they were not supplied.  That usually applied to speakers that were designated "bookshelf" but were large enough for the floor or some kind of stand.  When I had double and then triple Advents I used some machined pyramids that were available from Audio-Technica under the bottom pair at the four corners and stick-on felt pads between stacked speakers.  Coupling good speakers to the floor always seems to improve bass response in my experience.  All of my "custom" speaker stands are made with spikes.  I bought several sets from Paradigm. They were the same as the ones used on their Premier stands and racks.  Just drill four holes, use a black flat washer and nut for height adjustment and some kind of pad on the top of the stand to couple the speaker to it.  Sorbethane works best but I have found other sources for soft rubber adhesive pads that are effective too.  At least, on a hard floor, get a pair of carpet squares.  I made several dozen pairs of simple floor stands that raised a large bookshelf up a few inches and tipped them back a few degrees.  A noticeable improvement. Infinity made several models that were too large for any shelf I ever had despite being sold as such.  My McIntosh ML-10c "bookshelf" speakers are on stands with spikes right now.  Jim

[Daddyjt 9,612]

I have confidence that Arnie got them right the first time. I should not have said anything about the bass, as I don't even have them in their permenent positions yet, and I don't even have them hooked to their intended amps yet.

 

I was jumping the gun, and getting the cart ahead of the horse...:-)

 

I will report more when I get them fully integrated into my system...

[Gene C 1,748]

That's fine and dandy for book shelf speakers or speakers that don't weigh more than an average human being does Jim.

 

Unfortunately spikes on these speakers would be a horrendous idea... Here's why.

 

For starters these speakers require every square inch of support from the platforms that are mounted to the bottom.

 

These speakers can be top heavy due the angle of lean. (towards the back)

 

These speakers are more than 20 years old which means the cabinets should be handled with care. Some are already showing signs of splits or cracks due to drying out. (improper care) This also includes the platforms of which they are mounted to for support.

 

My favorite quote from Bob Carver "Arnie was a genius when he built those speakers". (Referring to the Kappa 9's) 

 

Last time I checked I remember Arnie incorporating spikes into some of his Infinity line even Genesis, but it wasn't the RS Kappa A Series.

 

This scenario reminds me of people dicking with the passive crossover in the 9's.  

 

 

[Daddyjt 9,612]

 

 

This scenario reminds me of people dicking with the passive crossover in the 9's.

 

Aw shit.... Don't tell me I shouldn't have bought those $450 "upgraded" crossovers off EBay.... They convert the speaker to a 3-way configuration, and smooth out the impedance spikes (and dips!) so I can run them with my 110 wpc avr...:-)

 

[fill35U 1,846]

Aw 5hi7.... Don't tell me I shouldn't have bought those $450 "upgraded" crossovers off EBay.... They convert the speaker to a 3-way configuration, and smooth out the impedance spikes (and dips!) so I can run them with my 110 wpc avr...:-)

 

How's this for a $20 solution?  Very quick and easy mod, should keep the load your amp sees to no lower than 3.7 ohms:

 

 

 

You'll need one spool for each channel...  

 

[Daddyjt 9,612]

AYFKM!?!?

 

Here's a pair a mere 45 mins from my house...!

 

http://missoula.craigslist.org/ele/4400262935.html

 

I sent him an email asking what he wanted to trade... Maybe a mkII...? :-)

[Gene C 1,748]

 

 

 

AYFKM!?!?

 

Here's a pair a mere 45 mins from my house...!

 

http://missoula.craigslist.org/ele/4400262935.html

 

I sent him an email asking what he wanted to trade... Maybe a mkII...? :-)

You going after the Infinity's or the amps? 

 

[Zoom 373]

Kappa 9s for $800.

 

I think I'm gonna be ill.

[RussellHammond 97]

I see another road trip in Mark's future

[Gene C 1,748]

 

 

 

I see another road trip in Mark's future

Only 45 minutes. He just needs photos from the seller to see if things look good. Getting another pair makes a lot of sense for different reasons.  

 

[Bean 384]

I am ill.  Speaker thats been on my want list a long time.....

Too bad I am not where I could actually utilize them right.....

 

But that doesnt mean I cant be envious lol....

 

Wish you lived closer, add you to my list of buddys whose houses I like to demo at lol.. 

[Daddyjt 9,612]

I still haven't gotten a response from the guy, so we'll see...:-)