3M_Audio

An interesting question that I've thought about quite a bit over the years. I think it comes down to the company mission. If the goal is maximizing sales and profits, that moves you heavily into price competition for the masses. Quality and near custom-made products will never price compete with slave labor asian rubbish (although to be fair, some of the asian audio stuff can be decent if QC is good). On the other hand, selling true quality items (and U.S. built) will always have a market, but much smaller - a very different point on the consumer price/quality curve. Sort of a boutique manufacturer. Think Aston Martin... In my experience, the individuals in each camp tend not to mingle too much. For example, for high-end audio I tend to disregard most of what I see on social media - other than maybe if I get a little tickle from an ad to send me off to a legit site where I can get some real info. But I'm not a normal audio consumer - I can't even tell you how many of my young customers have never even heard live music. So pretty hard for them to compare what they hear to anything real. They shop almost entirely for audio product based upon cost, pictures, marketing nonsense, and peer reviews. My company manufactures car speakers and I could make them any way that someone would like with retail prices ranging from $25/pr up to $1000+/pr. $25 would be blood running out of your ears and $1000 would be very, very nice with cast frames and exotic materials/magnets and require corresponding costly electronics to drive them properly. It was a challenge to produce something that really sounded decent with stock & typical aftermarket headunits at a price point that turned a profit and a typical consumer could still afford. So in some product areas I've made some compromises and other in areas I haven't. I guess finding that balance is the magic. But I think I'm doing pretty well and capturing about 60-70% of the customer curve. I don't get the high-end and custom installer stuff or the Walmart shoppers. Almost all our business is referrals from various club forums which Google Adwords helps drive. As I understand it, Bob Carver's goal is your 'A' reference. I'm not sure how profitable that ultimately will be, but I have to believe that worldwide market is big enough. I imagine the trick is finding where those customers are and getting into the communication channels they use. Those channels are probably not most social media. But I think TCS is valid touchpoint. Are there product possibilities/variations that land between A and B? Probably. That would be an interesting discussion. Hopefully this isn't just rambling and there's something useful here. Glenn

Well said!

Welcome @Fidelity First! While some searching the forums will find you some other MX130 service info, what exactly is going on with your unit and what parts are you looking for? And I assume you've already found the service manuals on the site here?

Reminds me of the 80s super-amps that had massive capacitance in the power supplies. I asked one of the engineers at the radio station I was working at about brownouts and he laughed, pulled the power cord from one of the big amps we used, and it kept playing for about 30 seconds, lol. There's nothing like a good power supply designed by someone who knows what they are doing.

Welcome back Carl!

It's nice to hear those insights and feedback from Bob. In my experience - especially with quality amps - I find that after a certain point, further improvements in specs is not discernable - at least by me. I expect the THD, S/N ratio, etc. to be good in any quality amp. What seems to separate the exceptional from the good is the engineering that goes into providing real dynamic headroom.

Welcome @RLR!

Welcome Steve!

Looks like a metalic paint? Sort of a lava color - always wanted a car in that color, lol I like the color contrast with the black pieces.

Good history lesson - thanks. I don't have any fond memories of nasty old fiberglass PCBs

Welcome @msave1969!

Welcome Daniel!

Hello Dorian and welcome. Carver amps are significantly different in design than what most of us would consider as a 'normal' amp, so that's likely where you heard about it being complicated. What sort of issues is the amp having? You might also try some searches here in the forums to find previous posted info that may help you.

Welcome @Jeff F!

Welcome @Eyexlr8!

Yeah, that makes perfect sense. Bob seems like a very reasonable individual. Hopefully I'll get to meet him some day. BTW, what did you previously do in aerospace? I was involved in a buyout of a GA manufacturer some years ago and got an interesting education about the industry and the FAA.

My understanding - based on reading many, many years ago, was that simple continuous output resistive testing of amps was used to give *something* to quantitatively compare performance between devices. Typically, a 1kHz signal was used as that is a good average impedance, usually close to a typical driver's rated impedance, which could then yield power output numbers, THD, etc. I actually do this simple testing quite a bit with car amps and headunits to try and show my customers that the power output claims made by most manufacturers are ridiculous and explain the difference between clean continuous power and highly distorted instantaneous peak output. (it's the Wild West as far as performance claims go in the car audio world) But this type of testing would only be at all relevant when the basic underlying technology of the amps is the same. A variable output power supply - tube or transistor - wouldn't be comparable. I suspect that this methodology became something of a standard in age of transistor amps as it was easily replicable and could give repeatable results. This also satisfies many consumers' desire to boil performance info down to something they can glance at in 15 seconds to determine if one device is "better" than another. In other words, it coincidentally happens to nicely serve a marketing purpose. And thanks for that copy of The Audio Critic - really enjoyed reading that.

Foreigner - Night Life (turn it up!)

Welcome Shannon!

With amps I'm more interested in the underlying technology and quality of the components that make up the unit. The costs are what they are. If you give a good design team good quality stuff to work with, it seems you will get a good result (most times). With preamps in particular, I've had a few disappointments where the specs didn't match the real-world experience. I specifically remember a supposedly super high-end Phillips AH-572 that had specs that looked so good plus it had really cool touch controls. But when I finally saved up enough to buy it, I wondered if I was using the same unit I had seen reviewed in multiple magazines. Phooey. Sold it off not long after getting it.

Will do - should be a fun project.

Just picked up a 390t for repair. I'll be interested to listen to it.

...and no

Welcome!

Welcome Forrest!