Ratamahatta 437 Posted May 31, 2015 Posted May 31, 2015 I found some Thiel CS 1 cabinets all in all in pretty good shape at the thrift store for dirt cheap. I am kind of confused of where to go from here. Were they even that good to begin with? I have no testing equiptment or the knowledge to modify the stock cross overs to put aftermarket drivers in them, I mean I don't want to spend a lot of money to have them sound like crap in the end. One direction I am leaning towards is just buying this http://www.parts-express.com/br-1-kit-components--300-641 and just use the cabinets. Thoughts? any other suggestions? I have searched the internet and have not found much on the original drivers. Which if I could I could match as closely as I could to aftermarket. One thought on just doing the Dayton kit is that they will have all new drivers and cross overs. Again I am open for any suggestions but I am on a budget with these. Thanks in advance. 1
PMAT 2,038 Posted May 31, 2015 Posted May 31, 2015 The good news is it's just a two-way. That's way easier than a three-way to modify but still hard yo get right. The cabinets are good. 1
hammytech 51 Posted May 31, 2015 Posted May 31, 2015 I'm a huge proponent of the "Franken-Speaker". The CS-1 cabinets and crossover were obviously designed for specific drivers in mind, HOWEVER.... as long as you stay within the parameters of that design, say 8" woofer where an 8" woofer is needed and 2" tweeter etc., and don't buy crap speakers like Pyramid or Pyle, you should be able to muster out some form of excellent sound. Today's medium priced replacement drivers are great for projects. If you know the crossover point and ohm value of the original drivers (4 or 8 ohm, as this would heavily effect the crossover performance) then it's fairly easy shopping for replacements at Parts Express. Even some experimentation can yield amazing and surprising results, like replacing a dome tweeter with a ribbon or air motion type. Also factor in SPL @ watt rating. Try to match the tweeter with the woofer as close as possible. Dayton Audio products are a great value for the buck. I'm sorry I can't help with any info on the CS-1s, but there's bound to be a forum or some old audio review available that gives some kind of performance parameters. Thiel has always been considered "audio salon" grade speakers, so I'd definitely take a go at "Franken-ing" them. 1
kve777 6,888 Posted May 31, 2015 Posted May 31, 2015 What are the opening sizes? Probably came with Vifa woofers and Seas tweeters, see this THREAD on upgrading CS1.2's... Do you want them to sound as intended, or just mess around and see if you can get a good sound for low $$$? I guess what I mean is- What's your goal? If it has crossovers that work, you can use them as-is for now. I have a bunch of drivers around that may be good. Including some Polk audio ones that play well in different cabinets. Pics? Nice score! 1
zumbini 6,147 Posted May 31, 2015 Posted May 31, 2015 You might follow Thiel's 1.0 to 1.2 upgrade - add internal bracing and double the thickness of the baffle. 1
Ratamahatta 437 Posted May 31, 2015 Author Posted May 31, 2015 I can find a bunch of info on the 1.2's but not much on the 1's like what kind of driver did they use, specs or anything. They changed everything from the 1's to the 1.2's the woofer x over and tweeter were all different and added more bracing which I don't understand how that will help, the front baffle is 1" thick already. I saw how they added more wood on the front and the grill is thicker, there is also a small wave guide built into the grill I have to consider. My overall goal is to have them sound the best they can for as little money as possible. If I could find the original drivers I would or some more with messed up cabinets and good drivers but they seldom if ever come up even on e-bay. I know the 1.2 are rated 4 ohms the woofer was 8 ohms 88 db and the tweeter was 6 ohms, crossed over at 2500. I suspect the 1's were about the same except they changed from a fabric dome to a metal dome. I was thinking about these for woofers but some people say they break up at around 2200 but someone has built some high end speakers using them and crossed them over at 5000. https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.com/silver-flute-woofers-6-7/silver-flute-w17rc38-08-6-1/2-wool-cone/ I don't know on 4 or 8 ohms for my application, here is the link to the high end speakers using them. http://www.magazine-audio.com/gemme-audio-vflex-technology/ pics
Belvedere2 232 Posted May 31, 2015 Posted May 31, 2015 Looks like an interesting project. Have fun. 1
Ratamahatta 437 Posted May 31, 2015 Author Posted May 31, 2015 I emailed Thiel to see if they can supply me with the specs on the drivers. I also found out that this tweeter http://www.parts-express.com/tymphany-d27tg35-06-1-silk-dome-tweeter--264-1022 is as close a match that there is. From all my research it seems they matched sensitivity from woofer to tweeter although the woofer was either 4 or 8 ohm and the tweeter was 6. I found these http://www.parts-express.com/peerless-sds-160f25pr01-08-6-1-2-paper-cone-woofer-speaker--264-1146 and could add a mills 4 ohm resistor if its too low right?
kve777 6,888 Posted May 31, 2015 Posted May 31, 2015 I could send you a pair of Polk 6-1/2's from vintage Monitor 7 or Monitor 10 speakers. PM me if interested. I like those Vifa tweeters. 1
Ratamahatta 437 Posted June 1, 2015 Author Posted June 1, 2015 Thanks but no probably. I want to see what Thiel has to say but pretty sure it was a 4 ohm woofer. I will probably go with that Vifa and Silver Flute, I really like the idea of die cast frames and like the look better than the Peerless.
PMAT 2,038 Posted June 1, 2015 Posted June 1, 2015 There's nothing wrong with stamped steel frames. Many great Woofers come with them. Peerless makes some really nice sounding units. Of course do whatever spins your propeller. Kevin is on track about expectations. I would take him up on his offer to try out drivers. He may let you borrow them and they may sound better than your pretty ones. 2
Ratamahatta 437 Posted June 1, 2015 Author Posted June 1, 2015 Those Peerless do have a healthy x-max. I have read really good reviews on both. I will have to wait until I get in touch with Thiel before I do anything. 1
Ratamahatta 437 Posted June 2, 2015 Author Posted June 2, 2015 OK I got an e mail back from Thiel the tweeters are still available for the bargain price of 200 each plus shipping and the woofers are available for 225 each plus shipping. So &850 plus shipping for just the drivers for speakers that had a MSRP of 950. They would not give me any specs either. I kindly told them to get bent. I am on my own, I will probably just gut them out and just put a speaker kit in them. 1
zumbini 6,147 Posted June 2, 2015 Posted June 2, 2015 OK I got an e mail back from Thiel the tweeters are still available for the bargain price of 200 each plus shipping and the woofers are available for 225 each plus shipping. So &850 plus shipping for just the drivers for speakers that had a MSRP of 950. They would not give me any specs either. I kindly told them to get bent. I am on my own, I will probably just gut them out and just put a speaker kit in them. Good plan. You can do a lot of experimenting (or drinking ) for $850. 2
Ratamahatta 437 Posted June 2, 2015 Author Posted June 2, 2015 Yeah I thought that was a bit of a joke, Should be $50 at the most for each. No more Thiel speakers for me. 1
sKiZo 186 Posted June 2, 2015 Posted June 2, 2015 If it helps any, the CS1's have held their value over the years. Here's an decent link that may help ... http://www.stereophile.com/floorloudspeakers/189thiel/ Looks like Vifa built the woofer, and depending on the size, Scanspeak is listed as a good substitute ... https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.com/scanspeak-woofers-6-7/scanspeak-classic-p17wj00-6.5-woofer/ Also, looks like SEAS still builds their aluminum dome tweets ... https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.com/hard-dome-tweeter/seas-prestige-27tafnc/g-h1397-1-aluminum-dome-tweeter/ Now we're talking around $250 - sounds way more reasonable. Once again, match the speakers as best you can to original spec. I'd also go over the cabinets and make sure they're properly sealed. Most have a tendency to open up a bit and leak around the seams ... nothing a bit of silicone or putty can't cure. You'll also want to try matching the stuffing (if any). Rock wool, glass, fairy dust ... whatever. Also pay attention to the sealing surfaces for the drivers - those can get chewed up over time. A bit of putty rolled thin and pressed into the wood works wonders and still allows you to remove the drivers if needed. And yah ... looks like a fun project! Enjoy! 2
Ratamahatta 437 Posted June 2, 2015 Author Posted June 2, 2015 Thanks for the info. All the info you gave me was on the 1.2 though which I don't understand because the original woofers in both were rated at 4 ohms. Why would a 8 ohm speaker be listed as a substitute? So far I am planning on going with the silver flute 4 ohm and this tweeter which Madisound cross referenced to the original as a suitable replacement according to another thread I read. That would only be 120 bucks. Or I am going to go with this Dayton kit and just replace everything I kind of like the idea of having new everything, I know at the time the crossovers were state of the art and still may be but certainly cross over technology has come a long way since then. Having fresh cross overs is kind of piece of mind, I mean I don't know if there is something wrong with them. I would hope someone just hooked them up to a bad source and just cooked the drivers but who knows. The cross overs look fine. Still trying to decide what to do. Thanks for the input though. The cabinets do seem fine though. Thoughts on the two directions anyone? Thanks https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.com/vifa-soft-dome-tweeters/vifa-d27tg35-06-1-dome-tweeter/ https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.com/silver-flute-woofers-6-7/silver-flute-w17rc38-04-ohm-6-1/2-wool-cone/ http://www.parts-express.com/br-1-kit-components--300-641 1
Ar9Jim 6,512 Posted June 3, 2015 Posted June 3, 2015 When making your decision I would include the cost of recapping the original crossovers into the individual driver route vs the kit.I recently had a old cap issue in a pair of vintage speakers and if you go vintage crossover route the peace of mind of recapping would be important and likely a necessary expense to consider vs the kit. 1
Ratamahatta 437 Posted June 21, 2015 Author Posted June 21, 2015 Done! after much procrastinating and deciding I decided on this kit. http://gr-research.com/x-lsencorekit.aspx I finished them up yesterday and so far even though they are not broke in completely I am impressed. Pretty sure my days of buying pre-made speakers is over. I had to do some work to get the tweeter in and had to sand the grill to fit the new woofer. Since I am making these mine I decided to ditch the bottom mount terminals ad re designed the whole bottom and made some outriggers with spikes. I got some Dayton gold binding pots from Parts Express and installed them in the back. I sanded and re-painted the fronts. I also used the included smaller port and bass response is well below what was anticipated. Response is pretty neutral and detailed . I know they will sound different in a few more hours of break in so will give a fuller review then. Pics 5
kve777 6,888 Posted June 21, 2015 Posted June 21, 2015 I'm very impressed. Drivers look OE for the cabinets. They will undoubtedly sound like $2K speakers when they break in. Did you go with any of the cap or resistor upgrades? 2
Ratamahatta 437 Posted June 21, 2015 Author Posted June 21, 2015 Thanks, no I didn't go with any cap or resistor upgrades. They did use pretty decent ones to begin with. I figured I would spend as little as possible to begin with to see if I even liked them. I can always replace the caps and resistors in the future if I want to, I would probably go with Clarity though, just a personal preference. But I already am looking for my next DIY project. I wondered how the stock wave guide in the grill would play into this and found out they dull the top end, so I removed them. 1
MORE CARVER'S PLEASE 99 Posted June 22, 2015 Posted June 22, 2015 Hey my man.....those look really nice for sure...very nice set up... MCP :-) 2
avguytx 229 Posted June 22, 2015 Posted June 22, 2015 There's a set of CS 1.2's locally to me I've deliberated on for $150. But, not really sure I need a small set of speakers when I own, and mainly use Klipsch CF-3's which aren't your typical Klipsch sound. But I do love the sound of a good set of two ways and have a lot of respect for Thiel. Yours turned out great! Kudos to you. 1
Ratamahatta 437 Posted July 5, 2015 Author Posted July 5, 2015 Now these are getting broke in they are REALLY sounding good. Still don't beat the Sony ES SS M7s but these are not completely broke in yet. I am betting even when completely broke in they still will not but these turned out way past my expectations. They are really opening up and all the subtle details are coming through. Sound stage is huge and a few times have made me jump. Vocals sound natural and controlled, bass for a single 6 1/2" is surprising better than the Klipsch Forte II's, I am sure the Klipsch will go louder but don't really care about ear bleeding levels anymore. Highs are non fatiguing detailed and a pleasure to listen to all day. For the modest price anyone looking for a simple project and some great bookshelf or small floor standers should look into them. I just ordered my next DIY project, these. http://www.parts-express.com/solstice-mltl-reference-tower-speaker-kit--300-708 I am not going to use the supplied resistors or caps but will be replacing them with Mills resistors and Clarity Cap ESA on the high and Clarity Cap PX on the low. Kit is on back order but will post pics as it comes together. 1
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now