Bi-Amping

[Charlie 16,430]

I've seached through alot of threads dealing with this but can't seem to find what I need. I'm looking for info on the different types of Bi-Amping and what is needed component-wise to be successful. It would be a bonus if I can also get a step-by-step on how to set it up. My Cerwin Vega XLS-215s are setup for this (2 sets of inputs) so I'm wanting to experiment.

 

Any help would be most appreciated!

[morris 390]

I have been wanting to try this too. I have 2 pair of bi-ampable speakers and several Carver amps. 

[xavionics 2,094]

Good morning guys!

 

Are you going with an active crossover or will you be using the crossovers built into the speakers?

 

[Dav-Em 335]

Hope these help

 

 

 

 

 

[Ar9Jim 6,514]

Ok so your 2 sets of speaker binding post are tied together with a jumper of some sort for use when your not using a bi-amp set-up (2amps). The jumpers need to be removed. This type of  bi-amp setup is easy. It is a passive bi-amp setup. It is using your speakers internal passive crossovers, as opposed to an active bi-amp setup using an active electronic crossover before the amps to narrow the band width that the amps operate within before feeding drivers..

 

With the passive setup you will feed both of the amps the same full range signal. Carver Preamps usually have 2 pairs of main out jacks and can make this easy.. Then you wire one amp to the woofer or bass binding post and the other amp to the upper end or mids/highs binding post.. This is called horizontal bi amp.. 

 

You can also do a vertical bi amp with the setup you have. That would be using one amp for each channel but in stereo..

 

You have one channel feed the lows and the other channel of the same amp run the highs. One amp on each channel..

 

These would be your options for passive bi amp that I have played with, both horizontal and vertical..

 

Active is another subject entirely.. 

[Charlie 16,430]

 

 

Good morning guys!

 

Are you going with an active crossover or will you be using the crossovers built into the speakers?

 

 

I have no idea.... I have 8 amps to run in mono that I want to use...

 

@ Dav, great flow chart but how would that translate into using mono amps? Or is that in there and I'm not seeing it?

 

@ Jim, that looks like the route I would like to go so if I had a flow chart to go by, I think I can do it.. 

[zumbini 6,150]

There's no effective difference running mono amps except that you need two to replace each stereo amp.

However, I recommend using identical pairs for each frequency band to maintain balance at all volume levels.

 

Active multi-amping requires the addition of an electronic crossover between the preamp outputs and amp inputs.

The electronic crossover splits the full range signal into several frequency bands which are sent to the amps.

It's more efficient because each amp only sees the frequency band it needs to amplify (no power is wasted as heat).

It's more difficult to achieve because you need to adjust the slope, bandwidth and phase of each frequency band.

 

Here's a flow chart for my horizontally tri-amped main system:

[Ar9Jim 6,514]

The flow chart by Dave is excellent for the passive Biamp setups. See the one labeled standard for an example of horizontal and the vertical example is a great chart for your other option with your gear on hand.. Zumbini post an excellent example of active setup (his own). Much more technical and requires some geekiness to get right  (in a good way).. Passive is a good way to start.

[zumbini 6,150]

...Passive is a good way to start.

 

I agree.

 

The caveat is that the passive crossovers control everything, including the balance between frequency bands.

Unless your speakers have trim pots for each frequency band you'll need identical amps or amps with gain controls.

 

[morris 390]

I have a Carver AV-634 4 channel amp. It has a built in crossover. I'm not sure if it is active or passive. I'm using it my HT system for center and surrounds, but I can swap it out if  I need to. I'm not sure if I should use the AV-634 crossover or not. 

[Balok 1,679]

I have a Carver AV-634 4 channel amp. It has a built in crossover. I'm not sure if it is active or passive. I'm using it my HT system for center and surrounds, but I can swap it out if  I need to. I'm not sure if I should use the AV-634 crossover or not. 

 

I would say the crossover should be set by your HT processor, not the amp.  The crossover on the amp should be set to "FLAT". 

[morris 390]

 

 

 

I have a Carver AV-634 4 channel amp. It has a built in crossover. I'm not sure if it is active or passive. I'm using it my HT system for center and surrounds, but I can swap it out if  I need to. I'm not sure if I should use the AV-634 crossover or not. 

 

I would say the crossover should be set by your HT processor, not the amp.  The crossover on the amp should be set to "FLAT". 

 

If I use the AV-634 for bi-amp duty, I'll remove it from the HT. The bi-amped system would be stereo.

I agree that it should be set to flat in any case.

[morris 390]

 

 

 

I have no idea.... I have 8 amps to run in mono that I want to use...

 

Charlie, What are the 8 amps you have?  

[Charlie 16,430]

 

 

 

 

I have no idea.... I have 8 amps to run in mono that I want to use...

 

Charlie, What are the 8 amps you have?  

 

I have 6 x M4.0t and 2 x TFM-42 

[morris 390]

 

 

I have 6 x M4.0t and 2 x TFM-42 

 

   Good golly that's a lottawatts. I don't have an AC line that could handle them all.

[Charlie 16,430]

 

 

 

   Good golly that's a lottawatts. I don't have an AC line that could handle them all.

 

I'm having an electrician coming to run a 75 Amp service to that room; hopefully that will feed the system quite nicely... 

 

For everyone that has contributed to my learning curve, thanks! I think I have what I need to go forward..  

[zumbini 6,150]

Two amps should be more than enough to make your ears bleed. 

 

If you insist on using four I suggest running them in single channel mode as bridging tends to smear the soundstage.

(Feed one input channel of each amp and connect the corresponding binding posts to one freq. band of one speaker.)

The driven channel will be able to "borrow" power from the unused channel up to the capacity of the power supply.

 

The only drawback to that arrangement is that only the meters for driven channel will be active. 

[Charlie 16,430]

 

 

Two amps should be more than enough to make your ears bleed. 

 

If you insist on using four I suggest running them in single channel mode as bridging tends to smear the soundstage.

(Feed one input channel of each amp and connect the corresponding binding posts to one freq. band of one speaker.)

The driven channel will be able to "borrow" power from the unused channel up to the capacity of the power supply.

 

The only drawback to that arrangement is that only the meters for driven channel will be active. 

 

Thanks for the additional advice, Z! 

[maytag 853]

Perfect timing-

 

My CV xls215's arrived last night. Hope they had a better trip then the last pair. With 2 TFM 45s and 2 M1.0ts I can't wait to try some different set ups. 

 

I should ask the neighbors what music they like 

[zumbini 6,150]

I saw the system photo you posted in another thread. You should have mentioned you have 4 XLS-215's...

Does the owner's manual metion the approximate power split between the highs/mids and woofers?

Based on the published driver specs and 280Hz crossover point my guess is that it's NOT 50/50.

 

 

[Charlie 16,430]

 

 

I saw the system photo you posted in another thread. You should have mentioned you have 4 XLS-215's...

Does the owner's manual metion the approximate power split between the highs/mids and woofers?

Based on the published driver specs and 280Hz crossover point my guess is that it's NOT 50/50.

 

Whoops; sorry about not mentioning the speakers. The manual just states the usual specs like SPL, crossover points, etc.

 They're rated at 250W RMS. Time for a call to Cerwin Vega? 

[zumbini 6,150]

....Time for a call to Cerwin Vega?

 

It wouldn't hurt to hear from the OEM but the split should be obvious when you hook them up and watch the meters.

 

If you do contact CV ask them if the 5A fuse protects all the drivers, or (my guess) just the tweeters and mids. 

[maytag 853]

 

 

 

pushing Cerwin Vega AT10s  on single channel through the C4000 or Denon in the dining room 

[maytag 853]

 

 

Still trying different set ups. Currently using M1.0t in single channel. Still haven't moved the meter lights yet.

 

No pre amp yet- it's up at Carver Audio repair. Music direct from TV outputs or Apple Airport Express.

Yes the Xmas tree is still up. After July 1st, I like to say it's up early...

[kve777 6,889]

 

 

If you insist on using four I suggest running them in single channel mode as bridging tends to smear the soundstage.

 

I've found this to be "not always true". I get more clarity and depth when I run my SoundStream DA-2's in mono. We tried them in both stereo and mono at CarverFest '16  into A/D/S/ 810's and the sound was much better in all respects when bridged. With SH from an H-9AV, soundstage was almost 180 deg. Widest I ever heard from any SH. You have to be careful when you run 1000 watt amps into 75 watt rated speakers, but they liked it. No blown drivers or crossover components, even when we pushed them rather hard. Try it all different ways, you'll know when it's right. It's all about System Synergy!