Ar9Jim 6,057 Posted February 11 Share Posted February 11 (edited) It has come to our attention that counterfeit Bob Carver amplifiers have been sold. Some counterfeit Black Magic 350s are known to have been sold by former dealers that are not covered by Bob Carver / BC Audio in any way. Those without a sales receipt from Bob Carver/BC Audio and not in our records after FEB 2022 have likely been a scam victim. We only sell direct to the customer. Please be warned that genuine Bob Carver products that carry our warranty and service are only sold directly by Bob Carver Corp. Those offering new products sold independently from our customer direct sales model are fraudulent and have no warranty responsibility from Bob Carver LLC.. Any products purchased since Feb 2022 outside our direct sales model may be a fraud. We have complete records of our product liabilities and register our customers warranty at the time of purchase. We know the quality of the products we sell. We can not be held accountable for frauds sold by former dealers acting fraudulently as agents, they lied to you. Please be aware. If you don't have a receipt from Bob Carver/ BC Audio and not in our records data base, you were likely a victim of the audio scam artist that are so common in this industry today. Some dealers have continued to advertise our products in efforts to bait and switch customers looking for genuine Bob Carver products. More scam artist. Be careful of frauds. High end audio is full of snakes and criminals that deceive people as a way of life. I've met a few. It's truly a wild west of voodoo science and opportunist worse than used car salesmen (My apologies to used car salesmen). Do Google searches and or background checks on people before spending your money. Buy direct from the manufacturer if you can. There are many who are honest, but many who are not.. Hear the products in your home to sort through the deep BS that is prevalent today. Mark Levinson refers to "the Audio Mafia" for good reason. Some of the most smooth talking salesmen are some of the lowest forms of human you will meet. They will stop at nothing to get your money, other than a home trial without a restocking fee. They have no concern for causing harm to Bob Carver or our customers, selling products outside our financial benefit, insurance or warrantee coverage. If you feel you may have been a victim, send a copy of your receipt for verification with our warrantee registration. If you wish to take legal action over an unauthorized dealer sale we will be happy to provide documentation. Beware. Jim Clark Director of Operations Bob Carver LLC jim@bobcarvercorp.com 815 985 3557 Edited February 15 by Ar9Jim 5 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3M_Audio 880 Posted February 11 Share Posted February 11 Sad to see these kinds of hijinks, but there will always be the unscrupulous out there. It does point to one really nice benefit that the Bob Carver Corp. offers. When someone buys direct from the factory, they are 100% sure of what they are getting. If I was plunking down $5000+, I'd be very reassured by that. 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Community Admin AndrewJohn 8,184 Posted February 11 Community Admin Share Posted February 11 I think this is a case for the FBI. Sucks that rip-off artists are out there. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ar9Jim 6,057 Posted February 12 Author Share Posted February 12 (edited) Here is a word of advice from a view inside this niche market. Anyone you deal with in audio who is selling anything or promotes themselves as an industry insider is suspect of being a scam artist. Do a Google search for their name and see how many scams they have ran in the past, and how many times they have been arrested before giving them $1. The longer they have been "in the business" the less you should trust them. The "Audio Mafia" Mark Levinson speaks of is real. Some of these audio scam people must enjoy going to court, judging by the length of their arrest records. I've only been with Bob for 2 years. Coming from aerospace, the level of snakes and deception in audio is like a wild west snake oil convention in comparison. I find it very disturbing. Many of the scam artist are quite old and will likely be spending their last days back in court defending themselves over deceptive business practices yet again. I would not recommend spending one dollar without a google search of arrest records for any audio salesman/owner/manufacturer or whoever you consider dealing with. Honestly, save yourself the headache and search their names and arrest records before buying anything audio related or doing any business at all in audio. It only takes a few seconds and can save you money and frustration. Jim Clark Director of Operation Bob Carver LLC. 815 985 3557 Edited February 12 by Ar9Jim 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Community Admin AndrewJohn 8,184 Posted February 12 Community Admin Share Posted February 12 Jim has a point, and a very good one. Check out Audio Karma, and do a search on "fraud"..., and you might come up with a number of the "usual suspects." Seriously, I did. Then, do the google search on their name, and see precisely what Jim is talking about. A very sad state when you consider all the names of note and notoriety, and ultimately, "infamy." When one goes to AXPONA, and sees these characters, walking around - pompous - and with an entourage of followers taken in by their con game..., one has to shake their head at the corruption. I've actually had to turn around and walk away from more than one of these guys, at an audio event where they keep getting invited to "speak" like they are worthy. ...felt like that one night I had, back in college..., followed by preventative penicillin. Yet, people are seduced by them. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ar9Jim 6,057 Posted February 13 Author Share Posted February 13 ...felt like that one night I had, back in college..., followed by preventative penicillin. Yet, people are seduced by them. LOL... I've met some audio con men that make you want to shower and scrub with an SOS pad. Could make a short list of those who harmed the hobby or took it so low, that others could attack it unfairly with ease. Audio is the best hobby on earth, imho.. Know who you are dealing with. Google search them before giving up your money. Buyer beware and you will have more enjoyment and few disappointments. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ar9Jim 6,057 Posted February 15 Author Share Posted February 15 Bait and switch or counterfeit products? 3rd request has been sent to stop this advertising. They will actually collect the customers money, before coming back with a bait and switch practice. Our attorney was copied in the last request. Why do we sell direct today? The good reasons are many. https://www.usatubeaudio.com/brand/bob-carver/ 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3M_Audio 880 Posted February 15 Share Posted February 15 scumbags maybe it's time for all Carver advertising copy to add 'Exclusively Factory Direct' 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisTFM35 598 Posted February 17 Share Posted February 17 It looks like they updated their website to state that these two amps are trade ins. 2 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sk1Bum 9,888 Posted February 18 Share Posted February 18 Here's a listing on Audiogon for a pair of Raven 350s for $6500. Stated as new and closeout with a 1 year warranty. I asked public questions if the original 10 year warranty is transferable, and that I thought these were only available as direct to consumer from the bobcarvercorp.com web site. I just asked a few minutes ago, so no response. The seller is in California, https://www.audiogon.com/listings/lisb881g-bob-carver-350-mono-amps-tube 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobTFM35 1,623 Posted February 18 Share Posted February 18 @Ar9Jim Are these the same people that were building units in the past? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ar9Jim 6,057 Posted February 18 Author Share Posted February 18 (edited) 1 hour ago, BobTFM35 said: @Ar9Jim Are these the same people that were building units in the past? Hi Bob, There is a connection making traceability impossible and liability uncertain. I started working with Bob when the companies were founded in 2022. I found a mess. There were several (at least 4) failed attempts at building Bob's tube amp designs under license that were "blips on the screen" or "flashes in the pan" that didn't survive, but every failed attempt took a toll on the company image. Personally, I've updated more 275's in support of the last failed attempt, than I care to remember, in an effort to prevent further damage to Bob's legacy after the last attempt crashed 2 years ago, while starting a new company. I have no connection to the last attempt, the legacy is my priority here. I can see how baggage from the past weighs heavy on the future probabilities of success. Just the service calls on 50 years products is a part time job that generates no income for today. Product line wise, I'm seriously considering discontinuing the previous tube amp products entirely and drawing a hard line between Bob Carver of the past, in the various forms, and this time of Bob and myself working together. I'm seeing no choice but to have a hard stop from the past, and shed this baggage/responsibility as much as possible. The damage to the legacy was done. I can't undo the repeated failed attempts in the past. All we can do is look forward and do right by the legacy and customers. Today we track everything. We know where every single product is located that is under our warranty. We know our customers. I know every unit that is under our product liability coverage. The untraceable past is what it is. It's an unknown that is uncalculatable. Feb 2022 to present is my concern. Before that date I will be giving out phone numbers to the Glass Audio partners. They can clean up their own mess or not, but selling those old untraceable products is coming to a halt. Edited February 18 by Ar9Jim 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisTFM35 598 Posted February 18 Share Posted February 18 Wyred 4 Sound probably made the units from leftover parts. I'm sure the 1 year warranty is their own warranty, but clarification is in order - just like the other place did. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ar9Jim 6,057 Posted February 18 Author Share Posted February 18 15 minutes ago, ChrisTFM35 said: Wyred 4 Sound probably made the units from leftover parts. I'm sure the 1 year warranty is their own warranty, but clarification is in order - just like the other place did. Hey Chris, Have you seen them for sale with a 1 year warranty? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisTFM35 598 Posted February 18 Share Posted February 18 Just now, Ar9Jim said: Hey Chris, Have you seen them for sale with a 1 year warranty? No. I don't look outside of you for Carver amplifiers - I buy factory direct! I've purchased both of my 275s from you. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ar9Jim 6,057 Posted February 18 Author Share Posted February 18 (edited) 8 minutes ago, ChrisTFM35 said: No. I don't look outside of you for Carver amplifiers - I buy factory direct! I've purchased both of my 275s from you. Thank you. Direct we can assure you world class products and service that reflect well on the Bob Carver legacy and make sure our customers are happy. Edited February 18 by Ar9Jim 2 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sk1Bum 9,888 Posted February 18 Share Posted February 18 59 minutes ago, Ar9Jim said: Have you seen them for sale with a 1 year warranty? I did. On the Audiogon web site. https://www.audiogon.com/listings/lisb881g-bob-carver-350-mono-amps-tube 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ar9Jim 6,057 Posted February 18 Author Share Posted February 18 6 hours ago, Sk1Bum said: Here's a listing on Audiogon for a pair of Raven 350s for $6500. Stated as new and closeout with a 1 year warranty. I asked public questions if the original 10 year warranty is transferable, and that I thought these were only available as direct to consumer from the bobcarvercorp.com web site. I just asked a few minutes ago, so no response. The seller is in California, https://www.audiogon.com/listings/lisb881g-bob-carver-350-mono-amps-tube Thanks. This is not under our warranty. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ar9Jim 6,057 Posted February 18 Author Share Posted February 18 (edited) If you have followed this thread you can see the uncontrolled / untraceable nature of past attempts at building Bob Carver tube amps under license by others. This is why we will be discontinuing any/all untraceable products from the past. Any product shipped by our company has testing and QC performed in Rockford before going directly to our customer. All products are registered into our warranty tracking system at the time of purchase. Each amplifier is supplied with a printed copy of the final operation test results for that unit S/N.. A copy is kept on file at the factory for future reference. Edited February 18 by Ar9Jim 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisTFM35 598 Posted February 18 Share Posted February 18 Will you still sell BM275? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ar9Jim 6,057 Posted February 18 Author Share Posted February 18 (edited) 16 minutes ago, ChrisTFM35 said: Will you still sell BM275? Yes. But not until we can make them in Rockford, QC and track them properly. Edited February 18 by Ar9Jim 3 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisTFM35 598 Posted February 18 Share Posted February 18 Good. We're planning on adding one to the Carver collection and I wanted to make sure. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sk1Bum 9,888 Posted February 19 Share Posted February 19 On 2/18/2024 at 2:07 AM, Sk1Bum said: Here's a listing on Audiogon for a pair of Raven 350s for $6500. Stated as new and closeout with a 1 year warranty. I asked public questions if the original 10 year warranty is transferable, and that I thought these were only available as direct to consumer from the bobcarvercorp.com web site. I just asked a few minutes ago, so no response. The seller is in California, https://www.audiogon.com/listings/lisb881g-bob-carver-350-mono-amps-tube I got a response from the seller: These amps are new from us and we will warranty them from manufacturing defects for a year. The 10 year warranty and lifetime tube warranty does not apply. Thank you 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Community Admin AndrewJohn 8,184 Posted February 19 Community Admin Share Posted February 19 4 hours ago, Sk1Bum said: I got a response from the seller: These amps are new from us and we will warranty them from manufacturing defects for a year. The 10 year warranty and lifetime tube warranty does not apply. Thank you Seems like in plain English, that's an admission that they are "counterfeit"..., and, well, who knows what is actually under the hood in the chassis. Could be left over parts for Bob's design..., might be Wyred4Sound's amp design..., or an abomination. Most buyers would not have a clue. Jim might have to change his phone number LoL! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sk1Bum 9,888 Posted February 19 Share Posted February 19 2 hours ago, AndrewJohn said: Seems like in plain English, that's an admission that they are "counterfeit" That's what I thought too, and it begs the next question: If they are new from you, why do they have the Carver logo on them? 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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