Sunfire All

[Paul Gardner 4]

Hi I have been collecting  Carver and Sunfire gear for 20 years now. I have spent a lot of time researching them also … I know this question has be ask and debated a lot with ohms law ,but can anyone simply tell me if the sig cinema Grand 5 and 7 put out the 400x?? …Chanel’s ,everything  thank Paul….

[cuda 585]

yea Signature versions

Edited April 22, 2023 by cuda

[AndrewJohn 11,449]

Welcome @Paul Gardner to your first post on the site.   Are you asking about the Cinema Grand receiver?  Or the 5 and 7 channel standard and signature model Sunfire amplifier?

 

If askign about the amplifier, you can identify the 400x5 or 400x7 by the gold-plated binding posts on the back.  The 200x5 and 200x7 have red/black plastic binding posts.  The signature model 400x5 and 400x7 have Bob Carver signature on the front faceplate too, upper left.  But that may have been rubbed off, so the binding posts are the best way to identify the two power levels apart.

 

If that's not what you are asking, apologies in advance for my misunderstanding.

[jjptkd 1,603]

15 hours ago, Paul Gardner said:

 can anyone simply tell me if the sig cinema Grand 5 and 7 put out the 400x?? …Chanel’s ,everything  thank Paul….

 

 I know for a fact they can deliver that power one channel at a time seen it with my own eyes many times at Bill Flannery's on his test bench. As for all channels driven? Don't think that's physically possible- I'm sure there's an upper limit on total output power that gets divided amongst all channels not sure what it is on those amps. Bill once told me the Sunfire Ultimate Receivers maxed out at around 575 watts total output no matter how you slice it; roughly 290x2 or 85x7 I'm sure the amplifiers are probably the same way.

[itchitch 4,740]

I was looking for my thread from when I first joined… asking the same question 😎

 

One of the sparkies here did the math and it wasn’t possible to output the maximum on all channels simultaneously (it was either limited by the transformer or the current draw from a 20A wall outlet)

[Ar9Jim 6,596]

A 15 amp circuit can deliver about 1800 watts and a 20 amp is good for 2400 watts. There are losses in the device connected that further reduce the possible output. Divide this by the number of channels and that's the theoretical limit of continuous power into resistive loads. Of course demanding full power, from all channels at a static 8 or 4 ohm load at the same time, doesn't happen in the application of audio driving dynamic speaker loads with an impedance curve from 2 to 30 ohms. Resistive load test won't show the ability of an amp to increase voltage swing in response to the dynamic, variable impedance of a loudspeaker loud. 

Bob test one channel at a time, measuring the voltage output at the point of clipping using the standard 1KHz sine wave. The voltage at clipping, squared, divided by 8 or 4 ohm load is the power output. Dynamic power is different.

When measuring, while driving actual speaker loads, lighter weight designs are possible without clipping at their rated output. This application driven approach has enabled great sound in Bobs lighter weight designs, that more people could afford without sacrificing musical performance. Wide voltage swings and dynamic power is what sounds good, current needs to be enough.

Edited April 23, 2023 by Ar9Jim

[Zenith4me 1,606]

Welcome to The Carver Site.

[Rob 6,720]

Welcome to the site. 

 

[wrf 5,329]

On 4/22/2023 at 5:53 PM, itchitch said:

sparkies

Say what???

[itchitch 4,740]

On 4/24/2023 at 1:18 PM, wrf said:

Say what???

 

Electrical Engineers...

[Paul Gardner 4]

Thank You all for replying to the age old question!!! I’m a Sunfire hoarder by the way !!! And Carver !!!!! 

[LVMAN777 386]

Detailed Model Analysis into Low-Impedance Loads

Sunfire 300x2 (Two-Channel)

• The 1-Ohm Workhorse: Of the models listed, the 2-channel 300x2 is the most unconstrained when driving extreme 1 to 2 Ohm loads. Because the power supply only has to feed two channels rather than five or seven, it cleanly doubles continuous power down to 2 Ohms (1,200 W / ch} and handles 1 Ohm continuous/transient dips without tripping thermal or over-current protection.

• Current Burst: Capable of delivering over 100 Amperes peak-to-peak current into ultra-low impedance dipoles.

Sunfire 200x5 & 200x7

• Behavior into 2 Ohms: Both the 200x5 and 200x7 platforms are rated to double power into 4 Ohms and double again into 2 Ohms per channel.

• The AC Wall Line Bottleneck at 1–2 Ohms: When driving 5 or 7 channels into 2 Ohms simultaneously, the bottleneck is rarely the amplifier's internal transistors—it is the 15 Ampere household AC wall circuit. Under maximum output into 1 to 2 Ohm speaker loads, a multi-channel Sunfire can easily attempt to draw 2,000 to 3,000 watts from the wall, which will trip standard home circuit breakers unless fed by dedicated high-amperage lines (20).

Sunfire 400x7 (Theater Grand / TGA 400-7)

• High-Voltage / High-Current Titan: Delivering 400 RMS into 8 Ohms and 800 W RMS} into 4 Ohms} across 7 channels, the 400x7 produces tremendous current output.

• Low-Impedance Limits: While internal tracking downconverters comfortably process 2 Ohm loads, operating this amp heavily into 1 to 2 Ohm speaker configurations requires robust power conditioning and high-current AC mains wiring to avoid line-sag.

4. Key Operating Tips for 1–2 Ohm Loads

• Terminal Selection: Always use the Voltage Source outputs for ultra-low impedance, high-current speakers. The Current Source output inserts a $1\text{ Ohm}$ internal resistor in series, which increases total output impedance and degrades damping factor on already low-impedance loads.

• AC Mains Requirement: To run Sunfire amps into 1 to 2 Ohm} loads at high volume without tripping house breakers, plug the amp directly into a dedicated 20 Amp AC circuit rather than a shared power strip or standard 15 Amp outlet.

• Capacitor Maintenance / Service: Because these units are aging, their internal energy-storage capacitor banks and tracking downconverter timing circuits should be inspected. Servicing (e.g., re-capping power supplies via specialized technicians) ensures the amplifier maintains its full 80-100 A peak current delivery capability without rail imbalance. FROM GOOGLE GEMINI PRO 3.0 AI

Edited Friday at 12:56 AM by LVMAN777
TYPOS

[LVMAN777 386]

Sunfire Amplifier Model	Channel Config	8 Ω Power (Continuous RMS)	4 Ω Power (Continuous RMS)	2 Ω Power (Continuous RMS / Transient)	1 Ω Capability / Load Handling
Sunfire 300x2 (Original / Architectural)	2-Channel	300 W / ch	600 W / ch	1,200 W / ch

 

Stable to 1 Ω. Dumps up to 2,400 W peak into 1 Ohm transients; high-current favorite for driving 1-Ohm planar ribbons.

GOOGLE GEMINI PRO 3.0 AI

Edited Friday at 12:56 AM by LVMAN777
TYPOS