Ar9Jim

The Bob Smith Band-----Radio Face.DMP--Telarc.

A sample CD called "A 20-bit taste of DMP".Jazz type artist mostly instrumental.Very high quality recordings,super detailed.If you like jazz and you listen to digital,the Digital Music Products label is very hard to beat.If you haven't heard recordings by this label you should check it out.Clean,detailed,dynamic all understatements.

That a nice high powered system Dom!Did you setup the sound when you and your brother worked at Cosmic lights?Quad-amp 3 way system sounds accurate?

Since I last post on this topic I have learned a lot and set up my bi-amp system yesterday.I am very happy with it and want to share.After a lot of reading and researching the active crossover options I decided against the pro units because of the issues with adapting to balanced connectors on most units and would rather keep the connections simple.I like the suggestion of an Audio Control Richter Scale 3 by Zumbini but it seemed like after his post they vanished from the planet.Found a series 1 but it has only 2 preset points so it wasn't an option.I was reluctant to buy a Mini dsp even though most of what I had read was positive.I thought here's a cheap A/D converter,processor and back to a D/A converter in the line level so all of its issues get amplified,I don't know?But on the other hand if the processing can be done in the digital domain its not likely to pick up hum or noise right?The background is black and quiet in digital normally.I mostly listen to digital sources these days so I guess another A/D to D/A conversion shouldn't bother me because I already bit that apple so to speak. I am using a C1 with the Mini DSP and (2) M1.0t Carvers.I am using AR90 4way speakers with the passive xovers in use.I made these speakers bi-ampable after reading old notes from AR engineers about how to do it and comparing the schematics with the AR9 that was factory set up for bi-amp.Ends up at the points I needed to separate (not bypass)the factory used spade lugs and it was mostly plug and play,like they prepared ahead for me,sweet! At the moment the set up in the mini in conservative having the low pass 1 octave above and the high pass 1 octave below the factory woofer xover point.I had issues at first with the mini but was helped by a post from Ben and Toymaker on CS.I will add to that post also.The mini is clean,quiet and super versatile.I will add to Ben's post because the advise in it from Toymaker kept me from throwing the mini in the snowbank so I could hit it with the lawn mower in the spring.All is well now.Sweet to adjust with a laptop in real time and see the change you heard.

In Gene's case he is blessed with some big carver mono blocks but for the guy with a couple carver conventional amps around the house and bi-ampable speakers your really close to something fun.

I would beg to argue that it is perfectly fine to bi-amp using a 2 way active crossover set at the factory woofer xo point and feed the low pass to one amp and the high pass to another amp feeding the upper end and woofer binding post using the factory passives to process from that point.I have reason to believe that the passives may actually work better when processing a reduced bandwidth signal.Amps work better that way with reduced IM distortion and thats measurable.The Kappa 9 (Gene and now Kevin) would be perfect.Big powerful hungry speakers.Factory xo point to the woofers of 80 hz.Use a simple 2 way active with a 80 hz chip or program .If you feed an 80 hz and down signal into a M1.0 and run the 4 -12s with it it will bring those woofers under tight control.With the limited bandwidth the amp will perform awesome.Same with the upper end.Take away the power hungry 80 hz low pass signal from the upper end input and the amp running the reduced bandwidth signal sounds great and super clean with an improvement for sure.Let the factory passives take it from there for the rest of the upper end processing.If you happen to (overdrive) clip the bass amp it doesn't smoke your tweeters, nice benefit with vintage or expensive speakers.The high end auto sound guys have been using combinations of active xo and passives a long time.Guys with ribbons would benefit huge from an amp running them that wasn't responsible for bass.There must be others out there that have bi-amped multi-way speakers using a combination of active and passive XOs.As long as you matched the woofer xo point,what were your results?

I had good results with the active xo matched to the passive xo point.Even though the speakers were fed through the binding post with passive xo still stock and in place doing their job with the 3 upper range drivers and lower range drivers as stock.The bi-amp is only a 2 way split so the passive xo has to be there on more than a 2 way speaker.The guy that talked me into the bi-amp thing 30 yrs ago was very smart and when I mentioned that the signal still goes through the passive xo his reply was "so what,that cap and coil can't remove something thats not there".And it worked great so good that it stayed that way until I sold it.Question is does that passive xo really care if part of the dynamic range is removed by an active xo first?Is there a technical reason for a passive xo to be affected by having less range input?Thanks again I'm learning and wondering if my success was luck or what?

Thanks for the response.So your saying that the 4 binding post are supposed to be fed the full range signal even when the jumpers are removed.Would a passive crossover have less effect on a signal if the frequency it is designed to filter is removed by an active crossover upstream?Seems it would have closer to a free pass through?

I have been reading in the old topics and also in current post about different ways people bi-amp their systems as I prepare for a project coming up.I'm armed with some practical knowledge from experimenting with bi-amping Carver M400s in the 80s and reading magazines back then.Please forgive me if this topic is the SOS to the more senior members.I have looked through a lot of old post.Rich and Dom have posted a great deal of info on this subject that seems to confirm my memory of my 1980s system and the many ways it was configured.Question #1.Why do people who are bi-amping crossing the signals of their amps outputs stating that they use the output of one amp for woofers on the left channel and upper end on the right channel?In this case the input must be a full range signal. Question #2.With speakers that are factory bi-ampable with 4 binding post many people feed full range signals to all 4 post and let the passive crossovers turn the rest into heat and what ever else comes with dissipating the unused signal and amp power.Will either of these methods while technically bi-amped (2 amps) ever show the full benefits of bi-amping? In both cases the amps are being fed full range signals.Bi-amping is probably more about the signal being input to an amp than either of these two seemingly common set ups take advantage of. If your speakers are factory bi-ampable then its easy to find out the crossover point to the woofers on line on in your manual.Get a 2 way active crossover set up for the point you need.Leave the passive crossovers in your speakers alone,you don't need to do anything with them to bi-amp other than removing the jumpers from the binding post.Try it.

I know,I was hoping to buy one from you!You cornered the market on everything else!lol.Thanks for your help a couple weeks back when my preamp failed.I had 3 amps and only 1 non working preamp and nothing to listen to.This is what happens when your OCCD gets out of balance.After Dennis is done with the C1 I will never be caught with only 1 preamp again.

I would vote for what Gene called option 1.I would do the active crossover and run stereo vs the 2 amps mono full range left and right.Imho.

The older post I have read so far have lead me to believe that home type crossovers are not common with RCA connectors.They seem to use balanced type connectors and I also read that the adaptors don't work so well.Dom was dealing with this issue in some old post.I would like to set up a bi-amp system but would like to avoid adaptors and have standard RCA connections.Any one know of any good stereo 2way crossovers with RCA connections?

Have you seen the surrounds on the sunfire driver?The rubber is heavy like a tire.Not at all like anything I had seen before.Very rigid.Pushing on the cone like on a normal driver won't even move it.Bet it takes a lot of power to make it move.I would sure like to see what they look like under power.

Welcome back!I am new here as well.That "someone named kve777 " is a good man that has helped me as well.Sometimes people tease him about hoarding this stuff but he does a service in my opinion.Last week my preamp failed.I couldn't find a C1 within 100 miles of me.Tried every pawn shop,used hi fi shop and CL..Kevin hooked me up at a price better than E bay..He lives closer to larger populations than a lot of us.

Welcome Chris.

Thomas Dolby--The aliens ate my Buick. Gets down real low.Draws lots of Carver power.You will like that part for sure. Jim

Pink Floyd-The wall

Thanks for the warm welcome and ton of advise.Really great to find other AR9/90 listeners. I should have spent some time reading here first because I upgraded my amp and now preamp before the first ones made it through the mail.Poor wife,although she's fine with my toys she says "I thought you bought those things already,how many are needed to make it work?"I say 1 of each. With a puzzled look she says "how many do you have?" I have 2 of each so far but its a start.Lol I had OCCD in the 80s when the M series of amps were new on the shelf.In the late 80s I went into remission. Then it came back in the last 30 days or so.When it comes back, its stronger than before and from the pics I see on this site a lot of you got it in the 80s and never had remission.Awesome,now I'm learning from you guys and thank you.OCCD is a great thing.WARNING:potential for hearing loss and cracked plaster if abused! How great is it to find a site that the members know this equipment down to its basic parts, when its now vintage! I'm only 50 years old and now the CARVER stuff I could buy brand new is now called vintage.Thats enough to make you feel old and that will also trigger OCCD.Finding out your vision is in decline due to diabetes and glaucoma but your hearing is still good will also trigger OCCD.That being said I may spend my retirement listening to a lot of music. This is when the true value of what BOB CARVER created shows through.He brought this level of musical enjoyment to everyone,not just the 1% that could spend an average American yearly salary on audio components.Without him many of us hear today may have never heard what real power sounds and feels like,except from a demo at a high end shop in a big city.God blessed Bob,Bob blessed the rest of us. Jim from Rockford...Jim Rockford..lol

Hello to the great mass of knowledge called CARVERsite. Its a great thing to hear others opinions based on long term use and tech knowledge. I have a 4000t that I bought off Ebay,My intent was to have this refreshed to know that its 100%. Is the C1 a better choice than the 4000t.The 4000t is a big box of parts and maybe less is more?Thanks for the welcome. Thanks, Jim

Thanks for the advise.I'll use the TFM25 while the M1.0t gets the upgrades and brought up to a known fresh condition. Lots of positive things said about the M1.0.Hands down winner. Jim

Hi BillWojo, I know what you mean about the demise of the tooling industries We have invested in becoming certified for aerospace production and that business is fairly strong and not quite as easy to send overseas. Jim

Thanks for the advise. I was hoping thats what you would say.I bought the TFM25 first and then the M1.0. My wife said "you mean you upgraded before the 1st one even got here!"I said "honey I had this illness 25 yrs ago and now its back,be patient is a medical condition with no cure"but I will treat the hell out of the symptoms.

Thanks Gene, Gear has been coming in this week and will post pics soon.Good to be here.Lots of nice systems at this site Wow! Last time I did this the internet didn't exist.

I'm Jim from Rockford IL.I started my Carver craze in the 1980s with Carver cd player,C1and 2 M400s using an electronic crossover to biamp a pair of AR9 speakers.1 M400 ran 200 htz and down the other 200 and up. Loved it,sold it,regretted it. Fast forward 25 years .Was thinking the other week about fond memories and what I enjoyed in my life that may be missing.Seems the last 20 yrs spent building a tool & die business has been mostly work with out much time for play. Times are better now and I have time to enjoy some of the finer things and its time to play with some Carver stuff again. Its been a long time and I can't wait.Kind of like waiting to see an old friend. So far I have a C4000t ,TFM25,M1.0t and a pair of refoamed AR90 speakers,slightly smaller than my old AR9s but close although not biampable. I will only be using 1 of the amps.I bought the TFM 25 off ebay and the M1.0t from an online HiFI shop that claims it to be tested and in perfect working order.That being said I know nothing about them 1st hand.If you were going to spend for the refresh for 1 of the 2 amps which is your choice?TFM 25 vs M.1t?Seems like the M.0t is an older model than the TFM 25 would be. Thanks, Jim