A New Sonic Hologram Generator is coming from Bob Carver.

[Dadvw 2,807]

On 9/5/2023 at 2:28 AM, jvandyke_texas said:

Forget tubes.  The tube sound comes from the amplifier output stage.  This is a signal processor.

The problem with the SH generator is that it's designed to cancel only the 1st arrival of the opposite channel.  I redesigned mine to cancel 1st arrival and all subsequent arrivals.  That is, it cancels the cancellation signals.  It has quite a different sound, and I had to shape the frequency response differently.  It's part of my C-4000 redesign project.  Unfortunately the project is on hold since I sold my house.

 

Have you tried discussing your "mods" with Bob personally?

[John Smallwood 227]

On 9/5/2023 at 4:37 AM, 4krow said:

Another company essentially used the multiple cancellations with DSP that you are describing with your unit. Sound is literally 160-180 degrees wide. Every inch in the room has part of an image in it. So, do I like it? No. Not life like at all. You are inside of the orchestra, deeper than the conductor.

 Again, and as always, we each like what we like.

  The hybrid tube designs seem to go with the tube used in the input for 'tube flavor' and a SS output for sheer power and bass slam. But I am sure that others put the cart before the horse successfully and win too.

 

Set up correctly, my experience has been that the standard Carver hologram is consistly 160+ degrees wide.  

[John Smallwood 227]

@Ar9Jim A simple, quick-to-market sonic holography component would have my vote.  One function: updated sonic holography.  In this case, less is more.  None of us are getting any younger, and it seems to me having something to market quickly would make a lot of sense all around.   

 

I echo what @jvandyke_texassaid about the circuit itself: it shoulld to be different, or upgraded.  Otherwise, it would essentially be a new C-9.  

 

And if it includes the Gundry circuit, it would definitely need to be switchable.  It's been my experience when switching my Gundry circuit in and out that Gundry can negatively affect the sound of some recordings in terms of their holographic dispersion.  

 

 

Thank you for this excellent news and informative update.

 

[AndrewJohn 8,184]

20 hours ago, Ar9Jim said:

It may be incomplete for someone wanting to run a multi channel system. Bob drew this for 2 channel use.  I'm betting there are enough 2 channel guys remaining to justify it's production. We get calls for the C9 often, even after all these years. Many were disappointed that the V12 didn't have SH included. This is for them.

 

@Ar9Jim, I know you have a handle on this market and every detail required to product manage this product to success.  I have great confidence that your leadership will produce and ship the best solution that will keep cash flowing and the Carver Legacy intact - and leave room for future development of Rev2, 3, 4, ...

 

You got this! Success is in your hands.

 

 

 

[4krow 5,077]

John S., 

 

  About the 160-degree presentation of the C-9, yes, you are correct about that. In fact, it is one of those things that make me turn my head occasionally.  The other device that I had heard in the past somehow went a bit beyond this and was too much of a good thing. It was rather impressive in its presentation, but not believable. Our brains will only accept so much as they will and filter out all the rest as BS. Maybe that is how I think of many things in life. We normally are hit daily with so much BS. Then again, just look at the number of sunsets that just don't 'look right'. 

  I concur with your statement about improvements coming in the new C-9 design. You can bet that Bob is likely to be doing something in that sense. 

 I still am pushing my idea of having a variable type of SH (like a volume control knob for SH) rather than 2-3 presets. Each recording probably has a 'best' amount of SH.

Edited September 11, 2023 by 4krow
clarification

[bayberuth 12]

I'd be in.. especially around that price point!  Personally, meters would be a nice aesthetic touch.  Exposed tubes I could take or leave depending on the final design.. not a deal breaker either way.  There's a lot of good suggestions here, but of course a price to feature balance needs to be struck.  Looking forward to seeing the final product!

[halfbaked 167]

The idea of a new Carver processor box would be an idea I would go for. Also having the tube optional is another good idea. Some of us don’t have the room or the right amount of cool to the room without turning on the A/C.😁

[ChrisTFM35 598]

I'm ready to see pictures of the concept. 

[Ar9Jim 6,060]

Hey Chris,

 

Ok here are the concepts. The Bob Carver signature will be in white like the rest of the script.

 

The chassis is deep enough (8) inches to allow stacking. Its also deep enough to accommodate the tube buffer option with tubes sticking through the lid with copper cages similar to the Ram 285..

 

We are thinking about using the same hole pattern on the chassis, regardless if the buffer option is selected or not.. This way the buffer could be added at a later date if desired, with minimal modification. Those without the buffer will still have the switch installed. 

 

Faceplate will be radiused to match V12 and 285 . The button recesses and buttons match the V12 buttons.

 

Some items from your request.

1) Power button on the face.

 

2) Gundry filter (switchable).

 

3) Can be purchased with a switchable tube buffer showing glowing exposed tubes.

 

4) Can be purchased without a tube buffer with a flat top surface suitable for stacking.

 

5) Make it deep enough to be stackable.

 

 

Radiused to match the Ram 285. Smooth and modern. This is old CAD software but plenty capable for this type work.

 

 

 

 

Edited September 11, 2023 by Ar9Jim

[Ar9Jim 6,060]

Now I'm designing a single work holding fixture for machining the chassis and the face plates. The X - Y pickup point for zeroing the machine will be machined into the fixture itself. I'll show pictures of the tooling. This tooling will allow the parts to be removed and replaced in the machine quickly while locating them properly.

 

This is key to keeping the machine running and reducing cycle times. Reducing cycle times reduces cost and keeps the USA competitive. I'll show you CAD, then show pictures of tooling in real life, then prototypes on manual mill and then production on a CNC, metal finishing, laser, silkscreen. assembly etc.. Hope its fun to see what it takes and how the process evolves.

 

 

Edited September 11, 2023 by Ar9Jim

[BobTFM35 1,624]

Measured my space that I have available. 19 inches wide, 17 inches deep, and 8.5 inches high.

 

Placed a " Coming Soon - THIS Space set aside for your listening enjoyment" sign on that space.

 

Thanks for concept drawings and word visuals.

 

 

[Ar9Jim 6,060]

On 9/8/2023 at 9:11 AM, Dadvw said:

Have you tried discussing your "mods" with Bob personally?

Sure. We talk almost every day. I gather and propose ideas, but Bob's has his own ideas and final approval throughout the process.

Edited September 11, 2023 by Ar9Jim

[John Smallwood 227]

Jim...I will summarize all of this great new info and post it in the Facebook SH page.  Thanks for the information. 

[KEFCarver 43]

I would like to see the new C9 have a remote to switch SH on/off, and maybe some of the "options- Grundy filter, Wide/Narrow, etc" switchable as well. Not having a remote would probably be a deal breaker for me because you want to be able to hear the effect in/out from your listening position. It should have both balanced and unbalanced inputs/outputs as well. No need for tubes IMHO.

[Dadvw 2,807]

5 hours ago, Ar9Jim said:

Sure. We talk almost every day. I gather and propose ideas, but Bob's has his own ideas and final approval throughout the process.

I am sorry Jim if I referenced you in this post.  I meant to ask Jvandke if he has discussed his SH mods with Bob persoanlly since he suggests that updated changes need to be made for the newer vrsion you are working on.

[4krow 5,077]

There should also be a rotary knob, unlabeled. It may or may not make a difference.

 

 Sheez, once something good gets to be too complicated, then it becomes a rat chasing its own tail. Hit and miss. One appealing aspect of the original was its price.

[ChrisTFM35 598]

This is great news!

[jvandyke_texas 432]

Ar9Jim:  If Bob has interest in full cancellation SH, have him send me a PM.  I'll dig my schematic out of storage.  I have one of my C4000s working with the mods.

[halfbaked 167]

It would be special if several of Bob’s processing ideas were in one box. That would make a statement about Bob being correct for decades of his processing inventions.

[Ar9Jim 6,060]

Tomorrow or Tuesday, machining of the work holding fixture will be done.  This will enable quick changes between parts to keep the machines producing most efficiently. This is simple 'soft' tooling made on a milling machine from 1018 cold rolled steel.

 

In higher volume, higher precision work, the same tooling would made from A2 tool steel, heat treated and precision ground after heat treat.

 

Milling is accurate enough for this work. Pictures to follow.

 

 

 

[3M_Audio 881]

8 minutes ago, Ar9Jim said:

Pictures to follow.

 

 

 

 

Perfect! I was going to ask if you'd be able to provide some pictures. Always interested in learning more about the manufacturing process.

[Ar9Jim 6,060]

24 minutes ago, 3M_Audio said:

 

Perfect! I was going to ask if you'd be able to provide some pictures. Always interested in learning more about the manufacturing process.

Great 3M.  I'll show the raw material and pictures as it becomes SH tooling that will save time for years to come, keeping the cost down.

 

If the volume justifies the expense we can make a punch and die for stamping the chassis for switches, RCA's, IEC jack, Etc.. 

 

There is an old saying with hydraulic press builders. "drill for oil, punch for profit."  

 

The process is scalable.

Edited September 17, 2023 by Ar9Jim

[Ar9Jim 6,060]

Heading to the machine shop this morning to make a work holding fixture for machining the chassis and face plates. Pictures later today.

 

 

[John Smallwood 227]

Thanks Jim....complete update posted to the Carver Preamplifer and Sonic Holography page today.  Keep the updates coming!  

[Ar9Jim 6,060]

Sorry for the sideways pictures.

Started on the SH tooling today. 

The material is 1018 CRS. This project doesn't require heat treat

The material is 1 x 6 x 17 inches.  This fixture is for use in a milling machine vise, like the blue color Kurt vise in the picture.

 

The vise jaws will be replaced with the fixture for holding the chassis and faceplates in the same fixture.

 

Today the stock was milled to get it flat and then located on the magnetic chuck of a surface grinder to grind the material flatter yet. 

 

Tomorrow I'll square up the edges and add the dowel pin holes on location. The counterbores for 1/2" Cap screws will be added.  Should be done tomorrow. 

 

Made chips in the AM and sparks in the PM..

 

Note the chips on the milling machine.. Normally chips shaped like 6s and Js are what you are after with amber/light blue color. When the speeds and feeds are right, the heat is transferring to the chips instead of the part or cutter. 

 

 

 

 

Edited September 19, 2023 by Ar9Jim