shortyg83 1 Posted January 12, 2016 Posted January 12, 2016 Ok so I have my amp that had the MKii upgrade last year. So I have about 400wpc at 8ohms. My amp is the M500T which means that it does sound a bit different than the standard M500. It is currently powering my focal chorus 814v floor speakers. These have 2 6.5 inch woofers for mid range and bass. Now my issue is two fold. 1. It doesn't seem like these work great on this amp. While they sound good they seemed to have sound better on other similarly powered amplifiers like mcintosh and even a lower powered rotel and marantz amp. 2. I think these speakers are too small for the size of my room. My room is only 15ft wide but it is 26 ft long. The couch is halfway of that depth. The problem isn't super apparent for movies. They have the added benefit of the surround speakers being around the couch and the center channel. The problem is when I want to listen to music. I want to listen to music in stereo only. And it doesn't fill the room with music like I desire. I am not saying you can't hear it. Obviously with this power I can get quite loud without distortion. But I can't really "feel" it. It doesn't sound full. Is there a bigger speaker that could be found used for around the 1k price range. I have been looking at the martin logan sequals. Would these be a good match?
trav0810 586 Posted January 12, 2016 Posted January 12, 2016 I am "vintage biased". I really like the older speakers with the 500mkII. Polk monitor 10's, RTA12's, SDA's. I also like some KEF and B&W models I've heard with that amp as well.
jldeni 439 Posted January 12, 2016 Posted January 12, 2016 If you can get the ML's for $1K, I would do it. I remember them going for $2500-3500. They have a very clear and transparent character. Are you using a sub (or subs) with your system? If not, it could make a world of difference. I have two M-500T's in my system- one is MKII, the other is not, as well as a Sunfire Signature sub. Not only can I "feel" the music, but my neighbors can as well. I do not play it extremely loud, but I do enjoy music that occupies the whole spectrum. One pair of speakers I have is very efficient-vintage Klipsch Cornwalls, the other set is not efficient-Tesla Sonorous. The 500T's both do a great job with them.
shortyg83 1 Posted January 12, 2016 Author Posted January 12, 2016 I do have a subwoofer already. It is a quite beastly Klipsch 12. But I am looking to not use that on music. Id prefer to have a pure 2.0 system. Or at the very least not require the sub.
UncleMeat 1,173 Posted January 12, 2016 Posted January 12, 2016 Don't get the ML's if you are not going to use a sub. I'd say go with a pair of Carver Amazing Silvers. They will easily do the trick for room filling sound and hit the lows extremely well.
dr_gallup 42 Posted January 12, 2016 Posted January 12, 2016 Seems like you are putting the cart before the horse to me. I've always chosen the speakers I like first and then picked an appropriate amp. 1
Belvedere2 232 Posted January 12, 2016 Posted January 12, 2016 Seems like you are putting the cart before the horse to me. I've always chosen the speakers I like first and then picked an appropriate amp.Agree here. I'm also in the vintage crowd. I like AR-90s.
BarryG 2,853 Posted January 12, 2016 Posted January 12, 2016 I also like vintage! I could kick myself for trading away my Magnepan iiia's. I am now using the Carverfest speakers which sound great! The m-500t mkii was not quite a good mix with the ALS hybrids, just not enough umph, probably due to impedance issues! I did use it to drive ribbons and a m 1.0t mkii opt 2 on the woofers with an active crossover! That setup did ok for me. I wish I still had my maggies! BarryG
Belvedere2 232 Posted January 12, 2016 Posted January 12, 2016 Same here Barry. My ARs aren't going anywhere. The Infinities may go soon since I let one of my amps go but always keep your favorite.
UncleMeat 1,173 Posted January 12, 2016 Posted January 12, 2016 Barry, how do the IIIa's compare to the Hybrids? After unexpectedly getting these Hybrids; I have not had a chance/need to dig into my IIIa's and get the failed ribbon repaired.
Balok 1,667 Posted January 12, 2016 Posted January 12, 2016 It is true that sometimes certain pieces of equipment do not sound good together. I'm wondering this: Perhaps your refurbished M500t is CLEANER sounding than your previous amps. At first, CLEANER can also sound "thinner" or "less loud". The imaging may also appear "further back" and therefore seem "less loud" or "less room filling". Thats when you need to start listening to late 50's and early 60's well recorded JAZZ. Maybe try adjusting the toe-in/out of the speakers a little first.
UncleMeat 1,173 Posted January 12, 2016 Posted January 12, 2016 I'm wondering this: Perhaps your refurbished M500t is CLEANER sounding than your previous amps. At first, CLEANER can also sound "thinner" or "less loud". The imaging may also appear "further back" and therefore seem "less loud" or "less room filling". Thats when you need to start listening to late 50's and early 60's well recorded JAZZ. Interesting you say that, some of my reference pieces of music for imaging and tone are the early Johnny Cash recordings. I was reading a review on Amazon of the complete Johnny Cash/Columbia Records discography box set and in it the first 15 albums are MONO! WTF?!?! Why didn't they release the stereo recordings in this?? Some people reviewing it commented that the stereo was not done properly; too much "background music", and not 'balanced' in terms of stereo VS. center image. Again WTF? It sounds BEAUTIFUL on a properly set up stereo; and even more so with SH which just makes the image explode the walls! I completely agree with you Balok; a thin sounding setup will shock you if you put these older Jazz/Rock/Country recordings on; especially live recordings like Cash at Folsom Prison.
BarryG 2,853 Posted January 13, 2016 Posted January 13, 2016 Barry, how do the IIIa's compare to the Hybrids? After unexpectedly getting these Hybrids; I have not had a chance/need to dig into my IIIa's and get the failed ribbon repaired. With a single m-500t mkii or two m-500t mkii's biamped with active crossover, I would choose the iiia's, Keep in mind my room is too small to do the ALS hybrids justice! Also the ALS need a bit more than the M-500t can provide! I wish I had the room and power to set up the ALS hybrids properly! Contact Magnepan a new ribbon was about $100 on exchange! Its not a difficult replacement! A lot of screws and two wires to solder! I will be selling the hybrids this spring because I do not have room for them. LonerT had expressed an interest a few months back! I will be moving probably this summer! BarryG
jldeni 439 Posted January 13, 2016 Posted January 13, 2016 Don't get the ML's if you are not going to use a sub. I'd say go with a pair of Carver Amazing Silvers. They will easily do the trick for room filling sound and hit the lows extremely well. I have to agree. Even the showroom where I auditioned the ML's added a subwoofer to expand bottom end. I can understand the drive to use vintage two channel. When I listen to vinyl it is, basically, through the vintage Klipsch in two channel with very little else except a C1, M-500T and VPI TT. No sub, and typically no other processing unless to adjust for a very bad recording. Sounds just like it did in the 70's. It seems that's what you're listening for. (?)
loner_t 2,568 Posted January 13, 2016 Posted January 13, 2016 I will be selling the hybrids this spring because I do not have room for them. LonerT had expressed an interest a few months back! I will be moving probably this summer!
UncleMeat 1,173 Posted January 13, 2016 Posted January 13, 2016 The speakers might not be a good match for the amp if they are 'tight' and the amp is well controlled. I thought the M-500t was supposed to be a bit softer/smoother sounding than the other Carver t/TFM-mod amps, but I can understand how it might sound too tight compared to a McIntosh (tube?) or a lower power Rotel or Marantz (tube?). If you are comparing to tube amps you might consider adding a tube buffer, it's transformed the CD music for me; it's quite simply amazing to me. Try some stereo vinyl or re-mastered in stereo CD's from the late 50's/early 60's recorded by Columbia, jldeni. Those will really blow your hair back!
avguytx 229 Posted January 13, 2016 Posted January 13, 2016 I run Klipsch Epic CF-3's on my Carver M-1.0t MkII Opt 002 (about 460wpc) and I love the way they sound. High efficiency around 100db/1-watt which is good for some serious volume yet the clarity is outstanding. Just my $.02. 1
DaveStL 85 Posted January 13, 2016 Posted January 13, 2016 My room is bigger than yours, but the system is at one end, so maybe not as symmetrical. We do live in the real world, and life is full of compromises.... I still use the MG-IIIa's Barry and Uncle Meat are describing. They are perhaps the best bang for buck in used speakers in your price range, but you may have to deal with maintenance (delamination). My next step up is $15,000+ MG 20.7's--not in a hurry! Dipoles (e.g. Maggies, ALS's) are truly wonderful in many circumstances, esp. symmetrical rooms, and esp. with 3 to 10 feet between the speakers and the front wall (i.e. the wall you face while listening). They provide a sense of space that is difficult to match with box speakers. There is the "Maggie game" where you sit in the normal listening position and close your eyes--point to each instrument or vocalist and open your eyes, and you will be amazed at the sound stage width, often well outside the speakers. You also get depth, which is largely a function of speaker distance from that front wall. IMHO, speakers really are the first thing you need to pick for a given room. And then expect that good speakers will show problems in the upstream components. You have a great amp, so don't sweat it for now.
oldtexasdog 2,456 Posted January 13, 2016 Posted January 13, 2016 I have chased the purist route. I have found a proper sized sub with a EQ just fills in the blanks. Right now I use a m-500t mkII a BillD C1, Grant tube buffer-turn table through a set of the CF 2015 speakers with a small but very musical Mirage sub. Room is 17X24 and it sounds simply amazing!! Where ever you sit.
Daddyjt 9,612 Posted January 13, 2016 Posted January 13, 2016 The two speakers that I have found to be pure magic with the 500t mkII are my klipsch rf7 and the NHT 2.5. The amp sounds great on everything else, but those two... Wow. 1
weitrhino 1,443 Posted January 13, 2016 Posted January 13, 2016 I'm wondering this: Perhaps your refurbished M500t is CLEANER sounding than your previous amps. This is an excellent point and one well worth considering, and if we do then source material becomes even more important. When I first mated my main system almost the very first thing I noticed was how utterly revealing it was on poor source material. Imagine the scene: Carver tube amps driving ALS hybrids with a Sunfire tube pre and Oppo BDP-93. I expected sonic bliss at every turn only to face the reality that poorer recordings became even more disappointing. I had attained a 'warts and all' system without such intentions. I don't discount the possibility of poor synergy between your MkII and speakers but there are too many other factors that might also point to the underlying cause of your discontent with your setup. If you haven't done so, spend time with different sources and source material. The Carver Site Reference Discs are an excellent starting point for evaluation. 1
DaveStL 85 Posted January 13, 2016 Posted January 13, 2016 When I first mated my main system almost the very first thing I noticed was Oh, Rodney. We'll have to look at one of PMAT's posts now to clear this mental image.
BluesMan57 1,411 Posted January 13, 2016 Posted January 13, 2016 On my two channel system which consists of a C-1,M-500 mkII,M1.0t ,Yaquin CD-3 tube buffer and the TT. No sub. And the speakers are Klipsch Forte II's and Original Large Advents. And I could not ask for a better sounding system. I would guess from all of the replys it's going to fall back on the old saying "It's what sounds good to you". We all have different tastes in music and ears....... 1
weitrhino 1,443 Posted January 13, 2016 Posted January 13, 2016 When I first mated my main system almost the very first thing I noticed was Oh, Rodney. We'll have to look at one of PMAT's posts now to clear this mental image. Only a true Carver nerd would think I mated with my system.
MORE CARVER'S PLEASE 99 Posted January 16, 2016 Posted January 16, 2016 For my 2 cents.... You say you can't "feel" the music..... well if you want to "feel" the music start looking at the Klipsch line of speakers. I would steer you to the Klipsch Chorus ii's.... or the Chorus i's.... they will fill a room with some concert level sound..... they are rated @ 101 db with just 1 watt.... they peak @ 1000 watts... I have both i's and ii's.... I drive them with Carver M400t's bridged or my TFM-55x ....I switch my gear around quite a bit... just playing with it..... hey that's what we do right... lol lol Powering those Chorus with just a few watts will get em kicking......But they can take my TFM-55x power with no problem..... I'll have those needles jumping wayyyyyyy past that 375 watt mark....... I tell ya at 300 watts those Chorus come alive......it's like a wall of sound hittin ya... and yea it clean sound.....You should be able to find some around the $500-$800 range.... sometimes less sometimes more... I paid like $27.00 for my Chorus i's.... blown woofer and banged-up cabs..... my Chorus ii's $175.... banged-up cabs and a cat got to the pass rads in the back... Now as you might well know Klipsch are horn loaded and yea they are "bright"..... some do not like it.... but will reveal sound that you might have not noted before with other speakers..... You might want to do this...... jump on the Klipsch Forum......start a thread that you want to hear some Klipsch......tell em were you are located... everyone will chime in who is close to you.....we do it all the time on the forum...... The Klipsch forum is great....Hey this Carver site is great I just happen to hang with the Klipsch guys a bit more..... Hey we all got our own sound we like...... I also like my Polk SDS 2.3's ....... they too have good sound......if I didn't like em I would get rid of them....... But they can't shake the walls like my Chorus do..... hey the Polk's tower over the Chorus but they can not put out that concert sound like the Chorus...... sorry Polk guys but it's true...... One more thing..... BarryG....... I will have you over to the house for a jam...... so you can check out my wall-O-Klipsch.... lol lol.....It seems time has gotten away...... we still got a bunch family chitt going on...... I am looking forward to having you over, I have not forgotten about you... Take care all.... Good luck finding your new speaker's MCP :-)
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