4krow

Yes, 10' apart may work well for some stereo effect, but definitely not a good start for SH. Try starting at 6-7' apart. Just as important is the need for these speakers to be as close as possible (within 1/4") equal distance from the listening position. For example my speakers are 6 1/2' feet apart from one another, and 90 3/8" each from my listening position. They are only about 20" from the wall. Also, they are toed in just enough that the side panel of each speaker still can be seen.

Dude there are no mistakes here until you can't undo something. I am still shaking my head over how good a set of speakers that I made for a friend of mine sounded just propped up on a coffee table. Really, it made no sense. Of course, I realize and practice all that I feel like practicing in my listening room just so I can at least count on hearing music well enough be moved by it. At this point I am beyond satisfied and mostly am amazed... and moved. You will get there I have no doubt, but enjoy a few 'this is a crazy idea' things along the way. It will help you find your preference and maybe a reference point of sorts for where you want to be in the end. I will enjoy seeing where this leads you.

I musta done something right. I have never been happier wit the sound of my system. I really didn't do a lot of experiments with speaker placement only because of the limited options that my room has. What I do, is that if there is going to be a serious session, then I will bring out different pillows on chairs, and drape a large memory foam sheet over the love seat. Yes, try to get the most pleasurable sound by placement that you can, and then adjust for living with it. Using Stereophile test recording or something similar will assist in getting it best for your environment. The fact that you do not hear music coming from the speaker itself is a big step of this process. Also in my case, I have mono volume controls due to the acoustics of my room. Such things really matter as adjust the volume, there comes a point where the sound is right and fuller.

There is probably more than one opinion about this, but I will give mine here. I have owned several types of subs, both active and not. Probably my all time favorite is a folded bass horn for its speed and impact, not to mention rock bottom depth. With that as a reference, only servo based subs have come close to that level of performance. To go a bit further, there is more than one servo based design out there, one claiming to be better than the other. I do not have a solid preference that way.

You have done what many of us here want to do. Over the years, I have built, bought, and traded speakers of all kinds, thinking that most of them were absolute winners. Why do we change our minds? Well, some do and some don't, but I happy for the overall experience. I appreciate very much what you have done here because it speaks to what preferences that you may have and your experience with each set. Thanks for all that.

Yes, undoubetly so. Her recordings are very fine to begin with, yet the album topped the CD that I had mostly as just being able for me to listen as though I was in the recording room. Pretty rare for me to expeirence this.

I had a Patricia Barber 45 RPM set long ago. I shook my head in disbelief so many times, it gave me a cramp. If better is better, and it happens to cost more, I am still your customer.

When it comes to MF copies, I will say that the likelihood of disappointment is much less than with many of the other remastered reissue sort of products. I trust MF, along with JVC XRCD. Other remasters on the other hand have been teeth gritting experiences.

Thanks Brian, I know that I have to choose carefully. Yes, the speakers are shiny enough to make reflections everywhere. The camera itself just has a hard time adjusting to different lighting when it didn't before. It is an old Olympus 560uz IIRC. Hooked up the speakers, and initial impressions are good, especially in the bass. I have them set about 2 feet from the back wall and well away from the side walls. I put them up on a short end table, expecting not very good imaging, but just to get them to some kind of height. In my room the bass extends very well down to around 40-50 hz. Anything lower must have some muscle and ability from a sub. The treble so far is great. Not overdone or bright but present. The midrange is what I want to play with here. It is backed off from what I am used to at least. Having said that, my other speakers were a bit up front in their midrange presentation. Always a balance.

I am going off topic here for a reason. Note the crappy photo that I last posted. It is my camera giving up the ghost after 10 years. I am needing a really good camera for not just shooting equipment, but all the other shots that I would like to get out there. New or used, what are your recommendations? Separate lenses are a bonus.

I was thinking of the wrong project. These are Scanspeak drivers. It is the crossover that is from Denmark. Apparently the engineer that I built these for is a friend of the guy who makes crossovers. Internal wiring was so heavy gauge in the crossovers that I had to solder on some jumpers to solder to the speaker terminals without too much heat. I am very interested in the sound.

I have not soldered the the other speaker up just yet. When I do it tonight, then perhaps I will have a chance to listen for the first time. The idea with these speaker cabinets is to make resonant chambers on the back of the internal cabinet. So, there are different lengths of MDF reacting as a diffuser but also making different depth cavities to 'house' different frequencies. The external dimensions of the cabinets are 7"W X 15"D X 18"H. I used constrained damping between many of the layers of MDF, using a product that is painted on, and designed for just such an application. Sorry, I have forgotten the maker of the custom crossover at the moment, but the drivers from Denmark. Morrel, I believe. The black walnut used for the baffles is some amazing looking wood, and I had just enough from long ago for this project. The finish is a combination of first a rub on finish, followed by a Spar varnish made for ACE hardware, followed by light sanding and then finally MinWax Tung oil finish. The sides are just the Spar varnish, as they didn't have all the deep grain for the varnish to sink into. Here is a shot of part of the internal cabinet:

Don't know where I posted my latest speaker project, but it is almost done and will be gone soon, so here is a parting shot. Dam, these things took way too long.

Rob, Be afraid>> be very afraid. Terrible things can happen to the most innocent of speakers by roadies, angry band members, and half deaf sound board guys, ALL who have drug issues.

I got very lucky and bought used 4343 for a song. The reason that I say lucky is because they didn't sound right at all when I auditioned them at the sellers house, but inside my head I knew that it was best to keep my mouth shut and take them. As you probably know, these can be biamped. Turns out, the switch on the back of the speakers was in the wrong position. Bingo, and a smile.

I should have kept my JBL's and never listened to another speaker.

I used to know a guy that called himself Bent Powers. Welcome lack.... I mean it........ It's a joke folks. Welcome sir, we miss MIA here.

Just a brief update. I have connected the above mentioned sub that has some real depth to it, and crossed the speakers over at 80hz with 6db slope. Supposing that 80hz is the knee of 3db att. it is just a starting point. I do not know the default for the low pass to the sub. I own a Velodyne SMS1 product that makes it easy to mate a sub and measure the room for bass response as well. I say easy because the other course is not so bad, being a program that you can adjust the parameters yourself, but takes awhile to do. For now, I opt for quick and dirty. So the result so far is that I have the sub turned waaay down indicating that I should be readjusting the crossover points. Still, I appreciate the addition of a sub where the music demands it. Soundwise, this is a good start but certainly not the end. I would like some advice concerning the use of an active sub, in that I want to get back into using a servo technique rather than this setup. What I am asking is how I might choose a servo driver and then build a bass system to drive it.

Yes, it is a challenge on more than one level. Usually bass shy, soft treble, and the dreaded midrange shout. That should be enough for most reasonable folks to take the hint. Funny thing, the drivers can be very expensive, and NOT worth it. God, I tried everything and ended up shaking my head. The hard core single driver guys are all in denial about the shout thing. They say that the bass is natural not boomy. Not many talk about the treble because they lost the ability to hear it long ago. Probably would have been the end of the road for me as well, until I heard the Mark Audio drivers. Got to put them in the right cabinet though. They don't have any more bass than most other drivers. So then, a folded horn was a good choice. One down, two to go. Surprisingly, I hear nothing in the way of midrange shout. Great, two down, one to go. Well, nothing is perfect, and this is where the Mark Audio driver may need some help by means of a ribbon tweeter. Not too bad of a trade off, since I might get away with using a simple cap between the drivers. Back to the bass. Don't get the idea that the bass is perfect. Truth is, I doubt that there is such a thing as a FULL range driver that has it all. What is accomplished with this horn design, is that the bass is strong all the way down to somewhere in the upper 40hz range. So far, I have augmented this with a sub, but there again matching will be important. When the sub is added, the bass gets too fat, and still not as deep as other subs. Presently, I am experimenting with 2 Audio Nirvana 8" drivers that simply need better/different cabinets to work well below 40hz. I do actually have a single 10" passive sub that will be put to the test. It will go quite deep below 40hz. The challenge will be in the mating. Then there are Ripole subs....We'll see.

Dude, Sometime later, these will be finished and much more worthy of photos. I appreciate your interest. The plans for this model can be seen at Decware Audio. I made the model DNA2, which are just a set of enlarged plans for the original DNA model. That model has some great ideas for smaller bass horns such as this.

Yes, it is the Mark Audio 12P. It is supposedly an 8" driver but there sure is a lot of basket and surround. Cone probably measures more like 6". Anyway, because they are playing inside a folded bass horn, there is little shortage of that. I tried a sub with them, and must adjust the crossover freq. to the sub somewhere in the 50hz range. About 90db sensitivity, and I am giving them 22 wpc class A amplification with a huge power supply. The sub amp is class D. I built it about 1 year ago. It is only putting out 50 wpc. This combination in my room is just where I want to be acoustically. Room is 8 x 13 x 19.

Brian, Have you been crouching in the hedges again? Why yes, I have taken many showers after numerous routing sessions. The Corian is very fine, and I will be glad to be done with it. Hmmm, this message isn't reading like I wanted it to. Anyway, bushes aside, some of the unmentioned includes layers of 'acoustic paint' between some of the layers of the cabinet walls, many many clamps in all directions, and still a gap, well glued in place the next morning when I went to check on the condition that my condition is in. These had better sound even more impressive than before. I need them to, my chiropractor needs them to, my massage therapist needs them to, and then there is my psychiatric team who really need a break from me.

GOD! Only one step closer. I have added the second layer of cabinet to this set. Now there is no need to insure them, they can't be moved. So, I found some Corian at a surplus store, AND two pieces from the local church. Well, what would you do with a bunch of Corian? I would slap them on speaker cabinets and dull a couple of router bits to trim them up with. Until the next part comes in, I have to have another listen. Maybe the bass will be better (heavier).

Will, i think that you did a fine upgrade. You didn't go over the top either in price or quality. The upgrade/repair matches the need very well. I am also amazed at how little went into most speakers back in the day. Adding a bit of damping material, and sometimes even another brace where there was none can be a worthwhile improvement. A friend of mine has the same fascination for many vintage audio equipment. I enjoy looking it all over and seeing what was done back in the day.

Nah, I have never seen this in a circuit, period. Seeing how this has already occured, it is a good time to make better terminations for the speaker binding posts. I can imagine how crappy the originals were. They practically all were back then.