An amazing speaker shootout, March Madness style.

[Daddyjt 9,616]

If logging in today and seeing a post from me brings you angst, worry not – I just wanted to share a neat experience I was able to have with a fellow “audiophile” (I hate that word), and then I shall fade back into the shadows.

 

As some of you know, I have become quite smitten with NHT speakers of late.  As some of you also know, I’m a bit of a speaker hoarder (Those days may be over, but more on that later).  Tim (@phildent) was kind enough to acquire a set of NHT 2.9 speakers for me shortly after I left CA this spring.  With the whole Covid landscape, logistics of acquiring the speakers from Tim has proven a challenge, to say the least.  So I did what any speaker aficionado would do – I kept searching until I found yet another pair.  This pair ended up being in Bozeman MT, about 5 hours north of me.  These are not in perfect cosmetic condition, so I am still planning on meeting up with Tim at some point in the hopefully not too distant future.

 

Needless to say, I’ve been enjoying the sound of the 2.9 speakers a great deal.  That did not stop me from dragging out another pair of speakers to play for a while (as I often do).  This time it happened to be the Infinity Kappa 9 set.  Seeing as how these were once my “unicorn” and favorite speakers, I was taken aback at how NOT in love with the sound I was from the get go.  So much so, that I was checking cable connections and polarity (Yes, I’ve made that mistake before).  All being in order, I retired for the night.  As luck would have it, a friend and fellow audio enthusiast was in my neck of the woods for a few days.  I asked him to come over for dinner, but my real motivation was to have someone “ground” me, with regards to my feelings on the NHT and now the Kappas.  Travis (No affiliation to the forum) is a great guy with a fair bit of audio experience, but most importantly, he’s not afraid to hurt my feelings and tell me I’m full of shit.  If you have a friend like this, cherish them – they are far more useful than someone who will kiss your ass and tell you they love everything about your system.

 

Long story short (I know, too late), Travis comes over and really likes the 2.9.  A lot.  We also listened to the Kappas (He was more forgiving than I), and the Polk SDA SRS.  4 hours later, he heads out.  I get a text the next morning (He sent it at 2am), saying we should do a March Madness style bracket/comparison with the NHT, Polk, Infinity and another speaker.  I mull it for a minute and reply “How about a bracket of 8 speakers”?  His instant reply “I’ll bring the beer…”.  What transpired was two additional 4-5 hour evenings of listening, listening, and listening.  And then listening some more…  We bracketed the speakers by random number generator, as there was no other logical way to “seed” them.  The first night we did the “quarter finals”, and the second night we did the semis and then the final round.  Going in I would have thought that as the listening session went on it would be harder and harder to discern the subtle differences between speakers.  However, quite the opposite was true – the longer we listened, the easier it became to spot the subtle differences between the speakers and music tracks.  I am also happy to report that other than the Legacy Focus 20/20 vs. Polk SDA SRS 1.2 round, we were in total agreement – that one round was a tad contentious though, and it really could have went either way.  The other thing I found fascinating was that with the exception of the Bose, B&W and Carver, all of the other speakers were my absolute favorite at one time or another.  Now I find several of them somewhat, and in some cases severely, lacking.  Funny how our tastes evolve… 

 

Here are the contenders:

 

 

B&W Nautilus 805 – I purchased these from the original owner about 4 years ago.  They are mint in box, and unmodified, as far as I know.

Bose 901 VI – I purchased these about 5 years ago, only because they are in mint condition, and they have the original EQ and “tulip” stands.  I’ve never owned a serious Bose product, and just wanted to play with them…

Carver ALIII – I acquired these for a steal ($400) about 7 years ago.  One of them had sat in about an inch of water, and the base was ruined.  I manufactured new bases for both speakers, and installed Infinity “perfect 10” woofers.  I eventually removed the woofers and replaced the stock drivers.

Infinity Kappa 9 – I acquired these about 8 years ago.  The woofers have been professionally re-foamed, and no further modifications have been done.

Klipsch RF7 – I bought these new in 2008, as part of a 7 channel setup (RC7 and RS7x4).  I have upgraded the crossovers with film caps and air-core inductors.  I also installed the “resistor mod”, but quickly removed it, as I found it detrimental to the sound (there’s a thread on that here somewhere, if one cares to look it up).

Legacy Focus 20/20 – Perhaps my “highest end” speakers, I acquired them from the original owner about 4 years ago.  They are bone-stock, as far as I know.

NHT 2.9 – After having Tim acquire a pair of these on my behalf this spring, I just couldn’t wait to get them from LA to my house in UT, so I took a quick trip up to Bozeman MT and bought a pair from the original owner.  They are not pristine looks-wise, so yes Tim – I still want the pair you have on hold for me…

Polk SDA SRS 1.2 – I traveled to Denver CO to acquire these about 3 years ago.  They have an interesting history, as they were once owned by member “madmaxx”, prior to his passing.  They have been modified with the RDO194 tweeter upgrade, the woofer baskets are dynamatted, they have a full set of “Larry’s Rings”, and the SDA cable has been rebuilt with MIT cable and Nutrik connectors. NOTE – the SDA cable was NOT used for this evaluation.

 

 

The signal chain:

 

Source - Oppo BDP 105 running SACD, DVD-A, and FLAC.

Preamp – Round one was completed with a 10-Octave line stage pre.  The second and third rounds with a BillD C1 (Modified by B-Man – That’s right, I haven’t gotten around to modding a C1 for myself… yet…)

Amps – Carver Silver 9t pair.

Cables – Kimber Silver Streak ICs and MIT Shotgun S3 speaker cables.

 

The Music:

 

Dire Straits “Love Over Gold” SACD, Private Investigations.  This is my new #1 test track.  It really has it all – Imaging, detail, deep bass, a deeper soundstage, and tons of subtlty.  Specifically, the xylophone is very prominent in the middle of the track, but its also present in the first half, albeit “hidden” by other instruments.  How much of it you can hear (and how detailed it is) in the first half of the song is a function of your system synergy.  There is a sound of breaking glass in the last ¼ of the track – this sound should be way beyond your front wall (behind your speakers) and to the left.  When the deep bass hits, it must maintain its composure, and not color the mid bass.  The high hat cymbal in the first half of the track should have the most subtle presence – almost a “kiss” of a sound.  The guitar plucking is stunningly life-like, and it really should sound like Knopfler is right in the room with you.

 

Fleetwood Mac “Rumors” DVD-A, Gold Dust Woman.  I really only use this track for one thing (I don’t even particularly like the song, lol) – In the first minute of so, I’m listening for the separation between the cow bell, the high hat and the snare.  That’s it.  You should hear three VERY DISTINCT sounds – there should be no overlap or “meshing” of these three, as they were mic’d separately in the studio.

 

Alison Krauss “A Hundred Miles Or More” FLAC, Jacob’s Dream.  Alison’s voice is a tricky thing, as many of her songs start out soft and subtle, then 20-30 seconds in, she really opens up – Jacob’s Dream is no exception. I liken it to a race car going into a corner.  Just like a racecar driver needs to choose his corner entry speed carefully, the Alison Krauss listener needs to choose their listening volume carefully.  If you go in too fast, you are going to hit the wall – the same is true for listening level.  If your system is well-assembled, you have plenty of power, a solid source, and perhaps most importantly great speakers, you’ll hold the corner and the result is goosebumps.  If not, you WILL find yourself reaching for the remote to turn the volume down.  I wish all artists put the level of importance that she does on quality recording – The detail of her recordings is truly a thing other artists should aspire to.  The detail of her vocalizations, banjos, guitars and a real joy – acoustic bass- they all blend together for a memorable experience.

 

Shawn Mullins “Soul’s Core Revival” FLAC, Ode To Billy Joe (Electronic).  Shawn’s baritone voice can be a real challenge for crossover construction in 3+way systems.  If there are any humps or valleys in the output, the result will be non-linear, and it WILL sound compromised.  Shawn is another artist that takes great care in his recordings, and you will hear it in a well-defined and spacious sound stage.

 

Klymaxx “Greatest Hits” FLAC, Man Sized Love.  This track is just plain FUN, and it plays BIG – Tight, solid bass, big horns and great vocals.  This track is just FULL of sound, yet all the sounds seem to have their own space.  On great speakers you can play this song at truly “live” listening levels, and it will not be fatiguing, in fact it begs you to inch the volume “just a bit higher”…

 

Ramin Djawadi “Game Of Thrones Season 6 Soundtrack” FLAC, Light Of The Seven.  This is a piano and string composition from the HBO series.  Surprisingly well recorded (for a soundtrack), the piano is quite well done – nice key strikes, pleasant decay, and when the strings come in it takes on a whole new level.  One of my favorite mid range tests.

 

Without further delay, here are the results:

 

 

Here are our score sheets:

 

 

 

 

 

Semi-Finals:

 

 

 

And the finals:

 

 

I am happy to report that the NHT was the CLEAR winner.  It had incredible bass for a sealed 10” – deeper than I would have ever thought possible, taut and controlled with not even a hint of boom or flab.  The melding of all the drivers into a coherent sound front is truly something to behold – absolutely no frequency dips or humps, and as stated all drivers sound as if they are one.  Sound stage that is as deep as it is wide – close your eyes and the speakers just disappear.  But perhaps the most impressive trait to both of us was their ability to present both the most subtle detail and the strongest crescendo side by side, and the subtle detail was never lost.  Never.  If you have the opportunity to give a pair a listen, do so.  And if you have the opportunity to buy them, so much the better.

 

Thanks for reading, and as promised, I’m headed back to the shadows…

 

Peace.

[Turbo 1,403]

1 hour ago, Daddyjt said:

I am happy to report that the NHT was the CLEAR winner.

Well crap, my wife is going to kill me when I bring in a set of NHT's... 

[Sk1Bum 11,414]

1 hour ago, Daddyjt said:

... I’m headed back to the shadows…

 

Hey, anyone have a flashlight. I saw something move over there.

 

Welcome back Mark. It's good to read you again, and as far as I'm concerned, you're always welcome. 

[Receiver2000 4,047]

Mark-

Thank you so much for that. You just made me realize again why I got into this hobby!!!  As much as I enjoyed hearing your results, I am thinking about how fortunate you are for being able to experience your test!!!. After I read your thoughts on Private Investigations I played both the CD and Mofi vinyl. Overall CD may have won this one on the dynamics alone but the glass breaking, xylophone and drumming around 5:40 seemed more true on vinyl. The drumming actually sounded just like a heartbeat. Anyway, thanks so much for all the time that must have taken to do and  to compile 😀.

Edited August 7, 2020 by Receiver2000

[Daddyjt 9,616]

29 minutes ago, Receiver2000 said:

Mark-

Thank you so much for that. You just made me realize again why I got into this hobby!!!  As much as I enjoyed hearing your results, I am thinking about how fortunate you are for being able to experience your test!!!. After I read your thoughts on Private Investigations I played both the CD and Mofi vinyl. Overall CD may have won this one on the dynamics alone but the glass breaking, xylophone and drumming around 5:40 seemed more true on vinyl. The drumming actually sounded just like a heartbeat. Anyway, thanks so much for all the time that must have taken to do and  to compile 😀.

Thanks - the listening and note taking were the fun part. The typing and creating quick excel charts was a bit monotonous, but it’s worth the effort to share the results.  Vinyl may have added a whole different dimension to this contest - my head is swimming just thinking about it, lol!

[kve777 6,888]

Nicely done! Now, you MUST get your hands on a pair of Tekton Pendragon's. I'd really like to read your comparison to the 2.9's. Oh, and maybe some Snell's, if any surface in your area. Try using Summer Madness by Kool and the Gang as a test song. Intense bass hits and high synth notes will challenge any speaker. 

[B-Man 4,780]

@Daddyjt  Mark - thanks for sharing the results of your madness. I want to hear the NHTs because I moved my AL-IIIs and AL-III+ pairs downstairs due to liking the SDA-SRS 1.2TL Polks so much more. IMHO the Polks just deliver better sound - especially the bass. With both sets of AL-IIIs I ran a True Subwoofer - with the Polks it is not needed.

 

Please keep posting and sharing - you are missed for sure.

 

@kve777  Kevin - thanks for the song tip - amazing mix to torture a speaker for sure. With this damn pandemic closing everything up I have not found a place to hear the Tektons. I really want to see hear what you are so excited about.

 

Speakers are fun - too bad they are so damn expensive !!!

[Dadvw 2,876]

Thanks Mark for a great write up! It sounds like you had a great time on those evenings doing that. I guess I need to try different speakers than the ones I have been listening to for the last 10 years......grin. We have missed you around here Mark, drop in a little more often.......grin

Edited August 7, 2020 by Dadvw

[DrummerJuice 1,287]

Loved this! Thank you Mark! You've been sorely missed!

[Brian_at_HHH 2,691]

That, Mark, is incredibly interesting - especially to those of us who may not have the depth of speaker experience that some folks here might have (or in your case physical height, width and depth of speaker collection!  ).  Thank you, and Travis for going through all of this, and for the very detailed notes.

 

I know that I gained a wealth of insight from that, and while I may wish for other speakers to have also been in the fray, I would also wish for other speakers myself to listen to, or, um, er, collect.    It gives me a real handle on what to listen for and what to listen to, to find that.

 

I think I speak for most people here that we love having you out of the shadows.  Anyone who doesn't agree needs a new hobby, or perhaps a time-out.

 

Thank you, again, and make sure you and your family stay safe and well my friend!

[Receiver2000 4,047]

Some practical and useful speaker selection criteria😄

[Daddyjt 9,616]

8 hours ago, kve777 said:

Nicely done! Now, you MUST get your hands on a pair of Tekton Pendragon's. I'd really like to read your comparison to the 2.9's. Oh, and maybe some Snell's, if any surface in your area. Try using Summer Madness by Kool and the Gang as a test song. Intense bass hits and high synth notes will challenge any speaker. 

If (when) I get to the end of my current work assignment I’m going to take a trip down to Tekton (assuming they are open by then...). Thanks for the track recommendation - I’ll check it out tonight!

[Daddyjt 9,616]

7 hours ago, B-Man said:

@Daddyjt  Mark - thanks for sharing the results of your madness. I want to hear the NHTs because I moved my AL-IIIs and AL-III+ pairs downstairs due to liking the SDA-SRS 1.2TL Polks so much more. IMHO the Polks just deliver better sound - especially the bass. With both sets of AL-IIIs I ran a True Subwoofer - with the Polks it is not needed.

 

Please keep posting and sharing - you are missed for sure.

 

@kve777  Kevin - thanks for the song tip - amazing mix to torture a speaker for sure. With this damn pandemic closing everything up I have not found a place to hear the Tektons. I really want to see hear what you are so excited about.

 

Speakers are fun - too bad they are so damn expensive !!!

you are certainly correct on the big Polks - no sub needed.  Do yours have the RDO194 tweeters?  That is a very worthwhile upgrade (even though, at $50 a tweeter it’s a $400 upgrade)...

[Brian_at_HHH 2,691]

1 minute ago, Daddyjt said:

I’m going to take a trip down to Tekton

 

Definitely looking forward to your thoughts on this one.  These certainly fall into the category of almost too good to be true for the cost.  If it weren't for Kevin's experience, I would be thinking they were over hyped, but there seems some real merit to them. 

 

Then again, the NHT's aren't exactly over-the-top in price, either, and seem to be pretty captivating to a number of experienced ears, here.

[kve777 6,888]

For anybody looking- THIS is the only pair of NHT 2.9's for sale I could find.

 

They are in South Central...

 

Virginia...

 

Brodnax, VA. in particular.

[Daddyjt 9,616]

10 minutes ago, kve777 said:

For anybody looking- THIS is the only pair of NHT 2.9's for sale I could find.

 

They are in South Central...

 

Virginia...

 

Brodnax, VA. in particular.

A truffle sniffing pig has got nothing on Tim ( @PhilDent ) - he’s found three (3) pair of 2.9s in the past 6 months... one pair for him, one pair for me, and a pair that’s still for sale in the LA area, as far as I know...

[Packratt 395]

Here's a nice pair in Md https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/205698140811516/

 

 

[PhilDent 1,963]

On 8/7/2020 at 3:22 PM, Daddyjt said:

A truffle sniffing pig has got nothing on Tim ( @PhilDent ) - he’s found three (3) pair of 2.9s in the past 6 months... one pair for him, one pair for me, and a pair that’s still for sale in the LA area, as far as I know...

Funny you should mention this. The seller I bought your pair from contacted me out of the blue. He's willing to sell me his "bedroom pair of 2.9s for $500" IIRC, when I bought Mark's @Daddyjtspeakers, the guy said his bedroom speakers were not in good cosmetic shape. Since he he gave me the pick of the 2 pairs of 2.9s in the living room that looked in decent shape, I felt no need to venture into his bedroom...

 

[PhilDent 1,963]

On ‎8‎/‎7‎/‎2020 at 3:22 PM, Daddyjt said:

he’s found three (3) pair of 2.9s in the past 6 months... one pair for him, one pair for me, and a pair that’s still for sale in the LA area

Mark, now that I think back, you found the first pair and I enabled you back with the second. 😁 

 

Apart from their awesome sound, the best thing about the 2.9s is that wifey didn't notice when I swapped them into the system - replacing the similar looking, but smaller, 2.5i's.

Edited August 9, 2020 by PhilDent

[B-Man 4,780]

On 8/7/2020 at 3:42 PM, Daddyjt said:

you are certainly correct on the big Polks - no sub needed.  Do yours have the RDO194 tweeters?  That is a very worthwhile upgrade (even though, at $50 a tweeter it’s a $400 upgrade)...

 

When I got them from Travis the tweeters were all missing. So, to answer the question, they do have the RDO194s. I thought it was worth the gamble to drop $400 on tweeters for them - as it turns out I was right. I want to hear the NHTs and the Tektons - if either can best the Polks I would consider a purchase. I find it a testament to the quality of the Polk design that people still find them good after 35+ years...

[AndrewJohn 10,463]

On 8/6/2020 at 10:04 PM, Sk1Bum said:

 

Hey, anyone have a flashlight. I saw something move over there.

 

Welcome back Mark. It's good to read you again, and as far as I'm concerned, you're always welcome. 

 

Ditto !  no need to hang in the shadows.

[EAHBuckeye 238]

This thread has so much awesomeness! With a couple of young boys at home, I admire your ability to devote the uninterrupted time performing this speaker tournament. I'm not wishing my boys out of the house prematurely, but I do look forward to doing this one day.

[4krow 6,605]

  You have done what many of us here want to do. Over the years, I have built, bought, and traded speakers of all kinds, thinking that most of them were absolute winners. Why do we change our minds? Well, some do and some don't, but I happy for the overall experience. I appreciate very much what you have done here because it speaks to what preferences that you may have and your experience with each set. Thanks for all that.

[engtaz 125]

Not trying to be a BOSE fan.  901's require a concrete block home to really work correctly, because they require backward sound reflections. Just letting you know what i found out helping a friend with his setups.

[Walrus Gumboot 370]

@engtaz Come on, you know you secretly want to be a Bose fan.  🙂

I do recall my 901's sounding really nice in my concrete military dorm room back in 1990.

30 years later and bouncing off drywall, they sound a little softer but I don't crank them up like I used to either...I really enjoyed the sound of Polk speakers in those days too.