Carver Knight Shadow Project!

[The Raven 504]

It's here! Been looking for an intact Carver Knight Shadow sub, but couldn't find one. So, found a guy who was selling the speaker and another who was selling the shell. Turns out, the guy with the speaker did some hunting around his house and found the box! Two to choose from! hehe. Haven't located a Knight Shadow amp to drive it, so I weaseled @Nahash5150 into designing and building one to power it. Excited! I'll load more pics as the project continues.

 

Right now I'm running a Martin Logan Dynamo on my system, but this was a Carver...and with an uber cool name...couldn't resist.

 

 

 

Edited November 16, 2018 by The Raven

[Dadvw 2,875]

How about doing it with an “already designed” Carver amp, any that you can mono block?.....grin

[jeffs 3,226]

31 minutes ago, Dadvw said:

How about doing it with an “already designed” Carver amp, any that you can mono block?.....grin

I have a similar Sunfire SW with blown amp.  I've been considering bridging an existing amp to drive it but came to the following conclusion:

If the impedance of this driver is 4 ohms, you shouldn't bridge a stereo amp across it.  This would effectively present 2 ohms to each side of the bridge. 

The amp might last for a while, but will likely sustain damage in the long term.

Someone please correct me if I'm not thinking clearly - which is entirely possible.

[Blues Pwr 766]

You may want to check out the Carver A-400x  its 200 w@8 ohm, 300w@4ohm, and in mono 600w.

The spec sheet in the data base says its recommended for main speakers in a home theater system or for forceful subwoofer sound in mono.

These are always reasonably priced because they have no power meters or LED's, just a plain front and one small green power light.

For what its worth its also Lucas Film THX rated

I bought a CT-23 Pre-amp + the A400x for $175.00 for both.

In my office system I was running two M-200t's in mono and I tried the A-400x in there just to test it out and it sounds so good I left it there and used the M200t's in the bedroom 5.1 system

Just another option, keep us posted on your system build.........

 

Edited November 16, 2018 by Blues Pwr

[Nahash5150 10,629]

My first thought was, that driver is so heavy it will easily heat up any stereo A/B amplifier, so go Class D.

 

I'll test it with a m1.0t mkII and see how far I can make that little box jump across the room...

 

1 hour ago, jeffs said:

I have a similar Sunfire SW with blown amp.  I've been considering bridging an existing amp to drive it but came to the following conclusion:

If the impedance of this driver is 4 ohms, you shouldn't bridge a stereo amp across it.  This would effectively present 2 ohms to each side of the bridge. 

The amp might last for a while, but will likely sustain damage in the long term.

Someone please correct me if I'm not thinking clearly - which is entirely possible.

 

Indeed you are wise.

 

50 minutes ago, Blues Pwr said:

You may want to check out the Carver A-400x  its 200 w@8 ohm, 300w@4ohm, and in mono 600w.

The spec sheet in the data base says its recommended for main speakers in a home theater system or for forceful subwoofer sound in mono.

These are always reasonably priced because they have no power meters or LED's, just a plain front and one small green power light.

For what its worth its also Lucas Film THX rated

I bought a CT-23 Pre-amp + the A400x for $175.00 for both.

In my office system I was running two M-200t's in mono and I tried the A-400x in there just to test it out and it sounds so good I left it there and used the M200t's in the bedroom 5.1 system

Just another option, keep us posted on your system build.........

 

 

The A-400x and M1.0t have nearly identical amplifier stages - biggest difference is the m1.0t uses 3 voltage rails and the 400 uses only 2. The buffers, gain stages and outputs are otherwise exactly the same (even the same transistors!). Obviously their power supplies are much different as well, but otherwise, the two amps would probably perform about the same into a subwoofer.

 

We'll keep y'all posted!

 

Thanks guys.

[RodH 4,866]

What about a PM-1200/1201?  

[Nahash5150 10,629]

17 minutes ago, Rod H said:

What about a PM-1200/1201?  

 

I don't have one.

 

I have a PM1.5 though.

 

The mkII drove it no problem, bridged. Still think I'm going to make/use a plate amp because it's funner.

[RodH 4,866]

I have a functioning but ugly 1201 if you want to move the guts to a plate. Yours if ya want it.

[AndrewJohn 10,419]

I saw parts like this on ebay too, and thought about bidding..., but I have three of these already, complete and working.

 

I love the Knight Shadow.  @niccolosito has one too, he recapped and brought to life.  The little plate amp in the Knight is much lower output than the sunfire versions.  And, there's three little changes to the plate amp to make this identical to a Sunfire Super Junior, with double the output rating..., the sunfire Super Jr.  has a different driver design, though.

 

… that is all moot, if you don't have the amp..., just interesting.

 

I had always thought, if I couldn't revive the three I have, to use an M0.5t to drive it.  Kind of like a step-child, since it's less loved, none of the same kind of love that the M1.0t gets, and hides with fewer lights... 

 

I have one of those M0.5t's sitting on the shelf if you are interested.  I have a topless PM 1.5 too..., also a candidate.

 

Oh yes, just for completeness sake, there a number of plate amp options on PArts Express that might also work - but would likely need some woodwork..., to seal to the box.  

 

My testing showed that having the box sealed was critical to listening performance..., at least in my environment, YMMV.

[Nahash5150 10,629]

Thanks for the suggestions! 

 

Yeah, this driver needs high current drive in a sealed box for best performance. It's going to have to be a class D plate - traditional A/B amps are too bulky and too hot for this little box.

[The Raven 504]

Thanks @Rod H and @AndrewJohn! I should start checking here first, seems there's all sorts of goodies floating around  lol 

 

With the find of this lovely little Knight Shadow I've been toying with the idea of eventually switching all my non-Carver system gear to Carver. Just for fun and to see what it's like to have one brand across the entire system. Do you guys have thoughts/opinions on the smaller Carver speakers?

[Dennis47 968]

Raven...

 

How about a pair of Carverfest 2015 Linesource speakers to go with the Knight Shadow?  

Edited November 17, 2018 by Dennis47

[The Raven 504]

@Dennis47 Oh, that's a great idea! Heard them at CF, fantastic speakers, especially for the size.

[Dennis47 968]

The OCCD got ya girl!

[The Raven 504]

It has...bad... I'm infected! 

[AndrewJohn 10,419]

1 hour ago, The Raven said:

Thanks @Rod H and @AndrewJohn! I should start checking here first, seems there's all sorts of goodies floating around  lol 

 

With the find of this lovely little Knight Shadow I've been toying with the idea of eventually switching all my non-Carver system gear to Carver. Just for fun and to see what it's like to have one brand across the entire system. Do you guys have thoughts/opinions on the smaller Carver speakers?

 

This might be interesting, but actually not helpful, since you don't have the Carver plate amp..., I posted my Knight Shadow recap project here.  There's some other anecdotal links from members in it's pages - also just information and fun to know:

 

I'm a one-brand guy too..., (OK, I have some EPI, dbx, and TT brands) but for the main chain, all Carver.  My local audio friends think I have some kind of neurosis... , I say yes, it's OCCD !  ?

 

 

2 hours ago, Nahash5150 said:

Thanks for the suggestions! 

 

Yeah, this driver needs high current drive in a sealed box for best performance. It's going to have to be a class D plate - traditional A/B amps are too bulky and too hot for this little box.

 

Thank you Greg...,   I might be the only one that doesn't fully understand.

 

What is it about the Driver and sealed box that make it better to use a Class D over others?  Is it the long-throw driver, the enclosure, the stiffness of the design of the driver (it's stiff!).  Or something else?

 

Hoping for you to put your professor-hat on.   ?

 

 

Edited November 17, 2018 by AndrewJohn

[The Raven 504]

1 hour ago, AndrewJohn said:

This might be interesting, but actually not helpful, since you don't have the Carver plate amp.

 

Oh, thanks! I'll read through it. Never know, might come across another Knight Shadow with an amp board that'd need a recap. 

 

What really surprised me with the Knight Shadow is the heft of the box. Fed-X guy was handing it off to me with that 'careful' kind of look, but the box was small for a sub, so I didn't quite catch why until he released it lol  It's a heavy, beefy bugger! Nice thick walls. 

 

1 hour ago, AndrewJohn said:

I'm a one-brand guy too..., (OK, I have some EPI, dbx, and TT brands) but for the main chain, all Carver.  My local audio friends think I have some kind of neurosis... , I say yes, it's OCCD !  ?

 

lol OCCD is so contagious! What do you run as a receiver on your Carver system? 

 

I'm curious, in your restoral of the Knight Shadow, did you end up doing this? I copy/pasted it, wasn't sure how to quote across threads

 

"Reading that ecoustics forum thread, it sure seems like there's a plethora of failures in these.  Everything from transistors to rectifiers and capacitors to resistors.  Looking at that story, I can't help thinking that it might be worth the time, effort and cost to just replace the rest of these components that I can get to (not the real small chip-sized) but the bigger rectifiers on the power and amp boards, and a few more of the transistors and diodes.

 

...kinda' like restoring a car, once you get inside the engine, putting back old valves, rods and pistons seems not to make sense when replacements are going to be better, and more likely to last longer."

 

 

Edited November 17, 2018 by The Raven

[AndrewJohn 10,419]

1 hour ago, The Raven said:

I'm curious, in your restoral of the Knight Shadow, did you end up doing this? I copy/pasted it, wasn't sure how to quote across threads

 

"Reading that ecoustics forum thread, it sure seems like there's a plethora of failures in these.  Everything from transistors to rectifiers and capacitors to resistors.  Looking at that story, I can't help thinking that it might be worth the time, effort and cost to just replace the rest of these components that I can get to (not the real small chip-sized) but the bigger rectifiers on the power and amp boards, and a few more of the transistors and diodes.

 

...kinda' like restoring a car, once you get inside the engine, putting back old valves, rods and pistons seems not to make sense when replacements are going to be better, and more likely to last longer."

 

 

I pretty much replaced every capacitor, mosfet and transistor, yes.  Did not replace any rectifiers.

[Nahash5150 10,629]

8 hours ago, AndrewJohn said:

Thank you Greg...,   I might be the only one that doesn't fully understand.

 

What is it about the Driver and sealed box that make it better to use a Class D over others?  Is it the long-throw driver, the enclosure, the stiffness of the design of the driver (it's stiff!).  Or something else?

 

Hoping for you to put your professor-hat on.   ?

 

Class D is more efficient, smaller, and has far better control over the driver than traditional A/B amps (huge damping factor), especially for frequencies below 1kHz.

[RodH 4,866]

Did  you say damping factor?

[loner_t 2,568]

23 hours ago, Dennis47 said:

How about a pair of Carverfest 2015 Linesource speakers to go with the Knight Shadow?  

 

I have heard rumors of a 'half-stack' (42+in version) of ALSes. Have not see that unicorn yet, though.

[Packratt 394]

Believe that is a product in development.  Not in the wild yet.

[Nahash5150 10,629]

16 hours ago, Rod H said:

Did  you say damping factor?

 

It's what everyone seems to understand.

[AndrewJohn 10,419]

@The Raven, Did you pick up that Sunfire Super Junior plate amp listed on Ebay yesterday?  It went fast.  For $59 BIN.  That was a steal. Needed work, but as a core, it was worth more than that.

 

It popped in my "searches", and when I looked at it, it was already sold.  I thought you might have picked it up.

 

It is a perfect fit to your Knight Shadow.  That amp is "identical" to the Knight shadow amp with 3 component differences (I have the list if you want to know).  Dimensionally, it's a drop-in same size plate, so it will fit in your cabinet.   And of course, it says "Sunfire Super Junior" instead of "Carver knight Shadow."

 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/SUNFIRE-TRUE-SUBWOOFER-JUNIOR-AMPLIFIER-ONLY-NON-WORKING-FOR-PARTS-OR-REPAIR-/302964804644?nordt=true&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.m43663.l44720

 

I hope it was you that picked it up!

[wrstps 9]

Not sure where you live in Michigan, However if you want to listen to a "knight Shadow" I actually have two, and only use one with a pair of amazing's. I live downriver in Taylor. you are more than welcome to come by and see what you think. All of my equipment is carver, consisting of silver 7t's c-19 and a  490t. I actually took this system to carver fest a few years back.

Ray Swinea